00:01.86 bizzyweb I had ah a great experience recently Dave where a friend of mine who's somebody you know to? it's kind of a surprise guest today I told me privately. Yeah I'm gonna be leaving and I said wow that's huge. You should let people know you've ah ah, completely changed dozens if not hundreds of people's lives and he kind of poohpoohed it and said now and I I just no no no I want to slip out the side door I said well okay, and then once he finally did. And he let it loose that he had left the company he got hundreds and hundreds of people wishing him well hundreds and hundreds of people wanting to know what's next and he has been quiet about all of it except that he agreed to come on our podcast answer. All the burning tell-all questions. So I'm very excited. Our guest today is David Winehouse formerly of Hubspot David was a fifteen year veteran of a number of different departments in hubspot helping it grow into the. 00:57.45 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Who I can't wait. 01:15.17 bizzyweb Veritable juggernaut that it is today from being what he classifies as a non-sal salesperson into teaching an entire generation of marketing and salespeople and harp hubspot partners David has a storied career at Hubspot. Who he has recently transitioned into doing other things and exclusively coming on our pot. Welcome David. 01:42.74 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh thank you? I'm so I'm super excited and David before we get started I just got ah I got a gush just a little bit because as the straight man in in the Dan tyre David Winehouse duo and the and the project lion you you truly. Change the way I sell and the way hundreds of other folks sell and my goodness it's it's amazing to have you on and I'll just do one little boo just to make you feel at home I that was amazing. You. 02:12.90 David Ah, is Dan on the call. Ah. 02:13.35 bizzyweb Bear David M Winehouse what did the m stand for it stands for magnificent. So excited for him to be here David what are your top 3 words that start with m. 02:20.25 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Success. 02:28.38 David Ah, well marvelous. So is to be here today. We'll go with that loved hearing the introduction love and am excited for this conversation. Both you guys are among my favorite people within the ecosystem as is busywe. 02:29.13 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um. 02:29.26 bizzyweb Hey yeah. 02:34.83 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, amazing. 02:45.52 David I have a ton of people that I love and are favorites but you you both are definitely among them and very excited to be here today and share a little bit about my story. So. 02:52.67 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Amaze or. 02:54.83 bizzyweb Yeah I want to I want to echo what Dave said because I um I do ah ah I do a pretty decent dantyre impersonation. But how I really think about how selling is I I you know it's the old eighty s commercial drugs commercial. You know I learned it by watching you and so when I need to go calmer when I need to be more thoughtful I I channel my inner wine house and we actually have another our our other salesfor that busy web actually has gone through the program and he he he's a winehouse acolyte as well. 03:19.19 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Absolutely. 03:21.38 David Ah. 03:27.94 David Awesome I love hearing that I feel I feel like we have different hats that we can pull out for different occasions I pull out my Dan entire hat sometimes when I need to it doesn't just not necessarily within me, but it's within the part of Dan that I can pull out so I appreciate knowing that I'm one of your hats treway. 03:35.47 bizzyweb Yeah, yeah. 03:35.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Are here. 03:44.21 bizzyweb Yes, and for that for ah for those of you who don't know who Dan tyre is he's basically the energizer bunny he just is consistently high energy all the time and he's an he's an amazing guy and he is ah he is ah Lewis to. Ah, David's David's Martin Martin but that doesn't really do either 1 of them justice. So let. Ah David I'm 15 years at hubspot. How did you get started working at hubspot. 04:06.75 David Ah. 04:11.37 David Yeah, yeah, So ah, may of 2010 is is when I started Hubspot but I guess my journey starts a little bit before that in that I was well even prior to that I'd work for Ups you know at a parcel company. And started a freight business. The recession of 2008 2009 happened It was a terrible time to be in freight. A great time to get out of freight and was looking to get into the tech business in General. So I hooked on with a company that was selling paperclick advertising worked with great people but just. Really not a good experience selling paperclick and the company as as a whole it feels like you know like I was selling Yellow pages advertising the product wasn't great. The retention wasn't super the culture of the company was not great, but a couple of prospects that I would go and and visit with. 04:47.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb No way. 05:03.80 David Um, you know door to door to door out here in Boston you know I would ask folks? What are you guys using today to help you grow the business and a couple people said hubspot I said hubspot is that advertising. No, it's not advertising. 1 woman showed me the screens I had no idea what hubspot was. 05:12.33 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 05:19.68 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Perform. 05:21.42 David I don't think she had any idea what hubspot was this is back in 2010 but what was amazing is that the couple of users that I found of Hubspot were believers in hubspot they loved hubspot and I was not used to hearing companies talking about products that they use that they. Loved um, so that that planted a seed in my mind which that I've I've got to figure out what's going on with this company I was super excited when I found out they were located in Cambridge so in my backyard here I tried to apply in 2009 I didn't hear anything back I don't think the company was really set up. 05:58.48 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Okay. 05:59.31 David At that point with a recruiting function and a training function but in 2010 I've realized I had a connection through someone a neighbor of mine who was in Mike Voly's wedding just throwing names. Mike is one of the original kind of gangsters of a hubspot and part of the founding team made my way in the company. 06:12.47 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah, ah. 06:19.18 David In 2010 in the sales function and started started from there. 06:27.40 bizzyweb How many ah when you got hired how many employees did help spot have okay and how many yeah I think 3 or 4 year point. 06:31.74 David I was I think about one 40 or so yes yeah I think officially the founding was 2006 but you know that was a couple guys sitting around a ah conference room I think 2008 06:32.72 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Okay, yeah, and it's only a couple years in right. 06:40.61 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah, right. 06:46.78 David Maybe the end of 2008 is when inbound marketing was published and then ah 2009 and 2010 started to grow. 06:49.73 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? ah. 06:52.76 bizzyweb How many hubspot employees were there when you resigned well well ball ball park so you were part of a company that went from 150 people to eight thousand and fifteen years 06:57.94 David I think it's close to about 8 I think it's close to about 8000 07:02.46 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 07:07.16 David Yeah, it was quite quite a rocket ship. As we said back then when I came on board I didn't quite believe it. But I came to believe it pretty quickly. Yeah. 07:18.84 bizzyweb That's astonishing. 07:18.87 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Well and and sales is one of those things especially in that sphere in Tech sphere that people I think it was in ah in a ton of tumult and there was a lot of change inside of how you did sales and. 07:32.93 David Yeah, yep. 07:35.80 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, just knowing knowing from what I know in in our lion groups. Um, you're you're one of the original proponents of you actually need to pick up the phone and that that's kind of amazing nowadays is like people don't get that anymore. So how did how did that stop. 07:49.39 David Yeah, now nowadays. Especially I think I think there were definitely some really interesting things going on back in 2010 when I joined and one was definitely how you know sales was transitioning but I think the other part. 07:54.77 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Know. 08:05.50 David That's interesting to go back and look on is how marketing was transitioning as well. So you know if we take a little bit of a trip down a history lane. You know those were the days when people had websites but they were kind of like billboards in the deserts so to speak everyone was rushing to get a website but then it was kind of like what. 08:18.56 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 08:24.96 David What do I do now? Um, they realize that they put a lot of money into it but it wasn't driving traffic or sales or leads for themselves and there were a lot of different approaches going on back then you know link building seo. You know dropping Britney Spears in the bottom of your website and the same text color as the background of your website right? So so you know people wouldn't see it but the search engines would and what what hubspot was preaching back then was really revolutionary this concept of inbound that we all know now which is actually. 08:46.58 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah. 08:59.54 David You know, create valuable content. You know, put it out where your prospects live and then help folks as they make their way back to your site to take them through their buyers journey. It's less revolutionary today that concept has kind of went out but back then it was super revolutionary. 09:10.23 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb In it. 09:19.12 David I also remember hearing about how many inbound leads hubspot was getting back at the time it was about 14000 inbound leads a month and as a salesperson I was like what like inbound leads coming to you 14000 inbound leads a month. 09:27.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Hell. 09:35.37 David I Said this is a place that I got to be the mission really resonated with me as well as the kind of the culture of the sales team as well. 09:40.32 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Well and and Hubspot actually was very prominent in publishing the big culture document right? and so that was that was a big change and a big shift that they actually cared about people and all of the things that that comes into that. 09:50.12 David Yep. 09:57.25 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb So that must have been super exciting. 09:57.34 David Yeah I think you know and this was the days I can't remember if the culture de was maybe 13 or 14 when they when they'd published it. But I I really the the mission of hubspot being actually being helpful as opposed to to gaming the system is something that really resonated to me. 10:05.99 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? ah. 10:16.19 David Although I will tell you just one of the funny funny stories is back when I interviewed in 2010 so it was it was an exhaustive interview process back then you go through case studies you meet with managers and then your your final interview like my interview 5 or 6 was with Brian Halligan so this was back in the days when when Brian. 10:25.41 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb No. 10:30.78 bizzyweb Wow. 10:35.37 David Would would meet with everyone and you know Brian you see him on stage and he's he's a great storyteller and he's telling the inbound story. 10:38.30 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 10:43.51 bizzyweb Briant Ryan is one of the co-founders of Hubspot for those people who are longtime listeners but not haven't drunk the orange kool-aid. 10:47.12 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Well. 10:50.62 David Yes, thank you, thank you Tregby so co cofounder of the company now you know, hugely influential you know founder very very well-known. Well-known back then among the hubspot community too and I had watched videos very ah, kind of like friendly warm guy. You know, talking about the story of inbound marketing and is you know, different different elements of it. So I'm thinking this is a kind of shake the hand you know interview. It's my fifth and sixth interview it's with Brian Halligan very warm friendly guy when he's speaking I walk in and ah Brian's like all right. I want you to sell me paper clickck right? He knew I was a paper click salesman starts off you know, no no pleasantries. Nothing goes immediately negative on me and wants me to sell them paper click and I'm like oh my god like I was not prepared for this at all. 11:27.85 bizzyweb Um, yeah. 11:36.45 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah, wow 1 11:42.38 David Um I guess fortunately I was prepared for having sold paperclick for a year prior. Um, and so anyway I I went through the activity with Brian clearly I did well enough because here I am at the end of the process but really threw me off my game was not quite expecting that. 11:59.29 bizzyweb He bought something from you. 12:01.90 David Ah, he he did indeed I'll tell you though the the other interesting part of that interview is you know like we we we broke down a little role-playing in the first 10 or 15 minutes but then Brian was up and at him at the whiteboard and we were talking about the personas that Hubspot was going after you know back in the day it was ah owner Ollie. 12:03.34 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah. 12:18.17 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I write it. 12:19.83 David You know a small business owner versus marketing Mary which was a little bit more Upstream and we just kind of we. We talked about how Hubspot was looking to evolve over time. 12:29.62 bizzyweb So how long were you in sales initial initially in that and that first role. 12:29.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, wow. 12:34.10 David How long was I in sales. Yeah, so so I I think I mentioned this and that that Linkedin post that you referenced TrigV is ah I never really thought of myself as a salesperson like at all I started in like software. 12:47.71 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, finish. 12:50.94 David Ah, programming in development then I went to business school I got ah you know came out of it with ah an Mba in marketing worked for ups corporate in terms of marketing. The reason I got into sales is we we moved as a family um to Boston. And I I did entrepreneurial suits around starting a freight company but that was largely signing up freight accounts and going door to door I was able to do pretty well although I was never very good. You know, traditional freight salesperson they knock on the. 13:13.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 13:25.50 David The back door to the freight dock they come with donuts or baseball tickets or hats I try that one time I was just horrible at it. It help felt really weird bringing in donuts like I didn't have the relationship I wasn't working for a freight carrier I was working for like a third party. So I really didn't have much name recognition in doing it. 13:33.58 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah. 13:44.84 David Um, but selling freight I figured out some of our strategic advantages as a company and then I would pour through lists of potential accounts all across the country because I could sell anywhere all across the country and I would try to find folks like. 13:56.38 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um I can. 14:00.12 David Who had lanes that we specialized in so like Wyoming based companies I would call on them and through this approach of just trying to figure out where are we strong what type of prospects existed anywhere in the company country and I could apply the power of focus to pour through lists and do matching that I was able to do pretty well selling freight. 14:13.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Man home. 14:19.90 David Until the recession happened and so that was really my my first experience selling and then when it came time to get into tech I said you know the best way to get in the door I'm not going to be I can't be a product manager you know like a big walk-in as a Cfo or anything like that I'm going to get in through sales I'm going to use those skills that I've developed. 14:34.22 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Resume. 14:38.82 David And then from there what I eventually realized is I could take a lot of those same skills that I'd started to build in the freight world and apply them. You know two x or 3 x times in ah in the tech world. 14:51.48 bizzyweb So but but back to the question you you got your initial sales role. What was the what was the next role for you at hope spot. 15:01.66 David Ah, so the and the initial sales roll I was selling direct to hubspot customers I was actually we mentioned Dan tyre before I worked in partnership with Dan for a long time starting like 2017 but back in 2010 I worked for dan. 15:12.45 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ha ha. 15:19.20 David Dan was my first manager and I was ah so Dan of mine's first month together. We sold nothing Zero Dan could not believe it because I would tease stuff up and Dan like to jump on the calls and. 15:19.55 bizzyweb What was that like no no hold. No, we're not what we're not running past that. What was it like to work for Dan. 15:26.25 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um. 15:28.74 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh for her. 15:31.16 bizzyweb Wow. 15:37.42 David He would just sell sell sell and we sold we sold nothing that first month now the second month was much much better in terms of doing it. But um, you you know? ah Dan and I I think you alluded to this before we're very different types of sellers. 15:37.83 bizzyweb Yeah, yeah. 15:52.45 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Okay. 15:55.50 David Um, Dan will just you know Dan's like the trains leaving the station baby. You want to get on board or not here's where it's going and he would just sell the heck out of that story which was inbound marketing and a great story at the time I'm more like ah where you trying to get to when you need to be there by like tell me you know, tell me about where you're coming from. Um, but the process of selling with Dan um, a we were able to Yin and Yang a little bit on those calls. Although I worked for him so it was a lot more his yang to my yang back at the time but I really learned kind of how to pull on my Dan Tire hat which is when I need to go excite. 16:21.88 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah, but. 16:33.00 David I need to build a story and get someone excited about something and that has value in the sales process as well is selling with Dan with such um, such a good education in um, in being able to do that and so I got a whole year's worth of time doing that with Dan. Um, before I ultimately ended up in the partner program about a year later where I met kind of my second a column like main mentor at Hubspot which was ah Pete caputa who some of your audience will know or much of your audience will know started the partner program at hubspot. 16:54.89 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 17:09.58 David And I had the opportunity to learn from him a very different style of sales than dan. 17:12.46 bizzyweb Can you can you do 30 seconds on what exactly the partner program is for the audience because I it it's it's really revolution. Yeah it it is really revolutionary and different for how Hubspot chooses do business. So it's it's. 17:17.33 David Yeah, so the partner program go ahead. Sorry. 17:28.57 bizzyweb And think you'd be good to unpack it just ah, just a hair. 17:28.98 David Yeah, so the partner program is Hubspot's channel program pete started it back in 2009 ish or so Brian the founder of the company did not believe in the vision of the partner program at the beginning pete pitched it to him Brian said someone getting between hubspot and its customers. Yeah I don't think that sounds like a great idea. So what pete did is the traditional hubspot thing nights and weekends building out this proof of concept that says you know a partners who largely in 2010 hubspot's partners were marketing. Agencies or website companies who were heavily invested in project based work but whose cash flows were very lumpy because they would go from project to project. So Pete's concept from having worked in the agency world was using a um. 18:15.80 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Sure. 18:23.76 David Ah, concept like inbound marketing. They can turn those project base work into ongoing marketing retainers. So his concept was we we can serve values to partners and from the hubspot side Hubspot could benefit from partners who um. Go in and do a lot of the work because Hubspot as great as it is. It doesn't run by itself and it's not advertising you just pour money in and wait to see what happens and you know either money comes out the other side or money doesn't it's a process and a methodology and a set of tools that are easy to use but still require work and so what. 18:55.71 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 19:02.11 David Ah, partners could help hubspot with is to make our customers more successful as well as being another potential sales channel for hubspot as well. In terms of driving up demand through their own relationships. It worked out beautifully. For hubspot provides a lot of Hubspot's revenue and really impacts customer success and retention equally as importantly and it all started back with with Pete's vision back in that 2009 timeframe and I had the good fortune to be able to jump on in 2010 and help figure some of those things out. So. 19:38.50 bizzyweb What were some of the first things that you were doing. 19:40.19 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb What did it look like when you started with the partner program. Then so yeah, you were you coaching individual partners were you connecting or were you kind of like a ah sales rep to help those partners be successful or where did that come in. 19:56.16 David So so I was in a role called the Channel Account manager. Um, which yes yes, and yes it did all of those things which was actually very interesting and good for skill building but very very challenging. So ah Channel Account managers. 20:00.80 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Better. 20:11.00 bizzyweb Wow you were You were a you were a cam Wow that says so much about you. Wow. 20:12.86 David Back at that time are responsible I I was a cam I was among the first I think I was like the sixth this sixth cam or so along with some some really storied names and at Hubspot. Um. But yeah, the the job was all of the above so it was hunting for new partners. It was onboarding new partners. We didn't even have like channel consultants back then that you know for them to take service issues or other thing so is hunting new partners upscaling ah partners. It was um. 20:35.62 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah. 20:49.00 David Selling co-selling with partners and then it was also a lot of like coaching those partners to help them run a sales process as well and it was carrying a number. So at the end of the day you needed to make sure that you produced a certain amount of monthly recurring revenue either with partners or you know Partners had. 21:07.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb It. 21:08.35 David Accounts that you could help close it was to do some selling um as well. Which yeah. 21:12.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? So true True partnership which is also a little bit unique I think I don't I don't know of any other companies where you literally get someone from the company that you're representing to come on board and be kind of your sales team with you. 21:27.88 David Yeah, yeah I think part of the difference too is like if you look at the Salesforce ecosystem. They had large like integrators. Um and they would you know so they were small partners but they were larger partners. There were other. 21:33.87 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? yeah. 21:43.87 David You know partnership programs where it was really you know based on like how much business can you service or bring in I think one of the great things about the Hubspot partner program is we were very invested in um, could have been at the time single person agencies couple people 10 people you know. TwentyTwentyFive person agency was a very large partner for Hubspot. Ah back at the time and I think part of that is because you know if you go back to that time. Hubspot is evangelizing this whole different process of marketing called inbound marketing. So if you start with an agency that's already very set. Maybe they're providing advertising services or media placement services or creative services. All of a sudden hubma says. No no, no, we're we you can. We got a better way. You can produce ah roi. You can you know create content services. You can do all these kind of things I think the companies that were very are the partners that were potentially very receptive were a smaller. 22:22.66 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You know. 22:40.59 David Firms who were looking for something that they could build their agency around and so Hubspot very much looked to invest in those those types of agencies and those types of partnerships. 22:52.18 bizzyweb So your cam for a while and then how did we get to the project lion. 23:01.84 David Yeah, so so I'll I'll talk first because even before project lion. There was a lot of training and enablement pieces that I think ultimately ended up in in in project lion from from my early on days as a cam. 23:08.64 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Nick. 23:20.69 David Um I started doing a lot of like group ah training and coaching and I'll tell you ah a lot of it was like I enjoyed it I like teaching I really liked teaching but a lot of my motivation in those early days was very selfish as well. So I remember this concept and I can't remember what it stands for it. But it was like the three c's of a good fit. For hobot 1 was like they had a considered sales process I can't remember what the other two c's were and if I had to repeat that like one more time to 1 more partner that I was bringing on board like my head my head was going to explod I just find myself saying the same thing over and over again and I said there's just there's got to be a better way. To do this to make those repeatable and scalable so very early on I started with live like group training programs and then we would record those and make those available for the next you know session of people that we brought on but you know delivering the same information multiple times. Just not. Not a good way to do things. Um, then I found that I really enjoyed it as well. Um, and so we we played with some other types of training programs too. So um I know some folks from familiar is host hut knows the name Katie Ing Mac who is one of the leaders of the Hubsbot partner program several years ago 24:17.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Okay. 24:32.50 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah. 24:36.93 David Her and I did this Friday group sales coaching where we would work with partners around like a ah case study type of an opportunity and we would live role play or we would talk about ah someone's opportunity and what I saw is we were We were bringing partners together. Partners were starting to get to know other partners. Names we were having a good time with it and we were also able to convey the kind of principles that we wanted to convey around selling wisely and intelligently and to good fit prospects and you know not spending time with bad fit prospects and it was really powerful that we could start to do that in a group sense. Versus doing it one on one and that that kind of there's a little more of this story but that's kind of what led to this this concept of group coaching and group enablement which eventually resulted in project lion and 2018 or so. 25:30.16 bizzyweb Was it really only 2018 it feels like it was a hundred years ago it was really six years ago 25:32.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Wow! yeah. 25:34.12 David I know maybe maybe 2017 somewhere somewhere around there. 25:39.56 bizzyweb Okay, so how somebody came to you and said hey like we're gonna We're gonna do this thing and we're gonna call it project lion. Okay. 25:40.39 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Get sure. Unbelievable! um. 25:47.59 David Ah, so that was Dan it was a Dan's original concept Dan has a storied career at hubspot he found himself back in the sales funnel like selling you know, carrying a quota and said to himself and everyone else I'm Goingnna be out of this role in six months what am I gonna do. He didn't know. But I was facilitating some small group coaching programs and Dan said hey let me run a group around prospecting um and with a small subset of people and let's see if we can. We could do something with it. So Dan being Dan he worked that thing hard he brought the. Passion um, those particular like agencies really aided up I was a little bit skeptical at the time. Not so much that um folks wouldn't have you know good experience with Dan and Dan wouldn't really be able to hype them up. But I I didn't know if there would be enough. 26:34.64 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 26:41.56 David Salespeople within the hubspot partner ecosystem that would enlist in a program like that where we could actually support like a full-time position so that was a first test to make sure we could get some movement in a small group of folks that were interested in doing it and then there was a particular. Business problem at Hubspot which I think lent itself um to getting some some latitude to do more experimentation which is you know and any and any group and this holds true for partners as well. You have some you know rising stars at the top who kind of just knew what was going on. They maybe they had sales Dna but they were selling a lot of business. Hubspot you have some folks at the bottom who just it wasn't a good fit to start with and they're just they're not going to be tremendously successful at least because the fit with Hubspot and then there's a huge group in the middle of folks that were selling and servicing some hubspot. 27:21.41 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Where. 27:34.43 David But you know when we signed them up both. They had bigger expectations and we had bigger expectations that the partnership would flourish even more and so being in the sales organization you know I'm coming at this from a sales perspective. How can we enable partners who are in the middle to sell even more and you know we had the recognition that. We're working with a ton of talented marketers at small agencies but they were not necessarily hired as salespeople which is what we were at hubspot yet at the same time hubspot has all this sales Dna that we could help in part. 27:56.62 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 28:07.50 bizzyweb Ah. 28:12.79 David Partners to help them be more successful and making a bet on that at scale is really what project lion was all about and we had some believers within the executive ranks who gave us some latitude to do that because Dan and I were 2 like high producing salespeople. The bet was we could produce more um mrr by doing this at scale than 2 high performing salespeople could pull in in a monthly quota. We we did it for 5 years So yes, we think so I mean it's it's actually it's um I think it's one of the like um. 28:40.16 bizzyweb Did you. 28:46.49 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um. 28:51.18 David Ongoing challenges of enablement you know, ah a sales per ah single sales post is directly attributable for the the monthly recurring revenue that they bring in at a program level. We worked with a ton of partners who also had individual sales reps who were directly accountable for um Mrr so we were kind of like an overlay on top of that. 28:51.39 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You know. 28:57.22 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb But. 29:05.84 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 29:09.10 David So we did measure like influence and then there was also a lot of stories. You know people would Brian Halligan coming back to him. He would ask people at the inbound conference. Oh you're in lion. How's it going has it made a difference for you and you know inevitably the people that were in the program really felt the. Benefits um of the program. So I think it was this combination of having a lot of influenced ah mrr and the stories that people told were really like powerful because they needed a lot of help and we were able to give help and able to pull together a community that could provide help and support as well and it all kind of. Came together in a very powerful way. 29:49.80 bizzyweb We need to take a quick break for sponsors but I want to come back and keep talking about community so stay tuned I had ah ah this unbelievable experience and it's one of the most surreal things that's ever happened to me and I'm gonna David I'm gonna. Ummnna rattle off a bunch of names for you. Um me, um, Heather Watson Leeka Walters Tracy Grasiani Keith gutierres 30:26.77 bizzyweb And Omi Diaz cooper kind of ah o g original lions from 20182019 I had dinner with them two years ago at inbound and these are people that I love and. I had such an amazing feeling that I was loved to and because I've spent dozens and dozens of hours with these people and what was so surreal about it. David it. It was the first time we'd ever all been in the same place at the same time. Literally the first time I met these people but they were invested in me and that was through the through that community building and the lion program so was that on purpose or was that just a nice byproduct of what happened. 31:13.65 David Gosh that's a good question. Um I I think part of it is um well yes, but I think a big part of it is being in the right place at the right time as well. One of the things that I think makes. And I'll just extend it to the hubspot community as well. This is true for line community. But I think the hubspot community is that um and for the partner community is that the shared mission right? that Hubspot has and hubspot partners have as well which is to do sales and marketing the right way. Ah, really like people-centric way to improve people's business and also to to reinvent the way that marketing and sales is done and the way it's thought of I think without that shared purpose. You can pull people together. But. 31:51.75 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Me here. 32:10.20 David You don't have the foundation. Um for the help and support. Um and it's it's it's been a shared mission but it's also been ah, a hard mission to put you know change is hard and so like trig me that that group of folks that you just described those were people fighting this battle this this mission. You know back, you know years and years and years and again, ah, a lot of folks within the pubspot partner community they're they're doing this in ah in a small world whether it's ah a twoperson agency or a 5 person or even 10 or or 20 or 30 person agency or larger where they're where they're building out this part of the business. 32:36.20 bizzyweb Um, is. 32:48.96 David And to find people who are on the same journey that you're on I think is very powerful to do. 32:53.48 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb It it is kind of a unique journey in business as well. I mean you you kind of teased at it with what Brian responded to when you were talking about Let's start up. Let's start up a program and he was like well with the partners. You know what? what are partners. We we just need revenue. We need sales. So a lot of times people tend to bucket the sales function into almost like a widget or a machine that they can control the inputs on and then just you know turn the screws a little harder on the salespeople and they'll make it happen but they forget that you're. Dealing with real people and you're an actual human being that has connection with other people on that strives for that. So I think that's part of why the partner program and the project lion was so successful is that it really. Was a support group as much as anything else for the people that were terrified of picking up the phone and needed to go through. 33:49.22 bizzyweb I think it's a little different than that because I think this is one of these things that I as I get older I realize that hollywood sometimes has some stuff wrong and the the cliche of Glenn Gary Glenn Ross of always be closing and. 34:02.37 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 34:06.68 bizzyweb Ah, boiler room where you have to murder the person next to you in order to get a sale. That's what was so fundamentally fundamentally different about the community aspect is you're not alone and when you're in sales and you're dealing with almost universal rejection just to get to 1 yes. 34:16.69 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 34:25.71 bizzyweb That's entirely lonely and and that's why so many organizations have such high turnover in sales and so all of a sudden now I had 6 people who were around the country doing the same thing that I was doing and. 34:30.44 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 34:41.88 bizzyweb Knew what I was feeling and we were supporting each other and I wasn't alone anymore that was that was the difference is all of a sudden and that's then that's why it's really called project line. Well a because you know Dan wanted something catchy but more more to the point you. You can let you can live and work well in a pack. 35:04.84 David I I think that's very true I think a lot of the magic came from getting people into the same room together. One of the things that I was most excited about and this I learned about. 35:05.49 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah. 35:12.52 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 35:20.67 David After we started or after we kind of you know came up with the mission of project lion. But before we scaled it is something so simple but the kind of the concept of Zoom rooms which had not existed prior to that point I remember telling Dan Dan these rooms within Zoom are going to be a literal. 35:30.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Bright. 35:40.17 David Game changer for the lion program that we are doing because it took it out of the concept of us like facilitating group conversations with 10 folks or 12 folks which can still be back and forth but into this realm of 3 people go off in a room. We're going to give you something to talk about, but it doesn't. 35:50.67 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb 4 1 35:58.65 David Even really matter so much what we assign you to talk about what's important is that you guys can go off share experiences together and create those meaningful connections triggery that are the ones that you're talking about. 36:10.38 bizzyweb So when you started in 2018 there were but let's let's let's make this fun and and quisitory how many how many hubswack boot camps were there. You went from zero to how many. 36:27.90 David Ah, well we started with one to build out the program and then then from there I think I don't know Dan and I were probably each running maybe six five or 6 Yeah. 36:31.59 bizzyweb Yep. 36:39.78 bizzyweb Well, you were running a lot of different instances but it was the same class right? So they're there. 36:45.40 David It was the same class. That's right? So I ran so just to set a little background here. So Dan was teaching prospecting so we called his the pipeline generation boot camp. So the first part of the sales process and then I was I was teaching like the the sales skills from discovery on and we called it. The sales skills. 37:01.19 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 37:04.27 David Ah, boot camp. So folks would often take well they did it in different orders. You didn't have to take Dan's first just depending on where your need was but they would often take like the prospecting boot camp with Dan and then they would come into the more discovery oriented boot camp with may. 37:18.70 bizzyweb Dave who who teaches pipeline generation boot camp now. 37:20.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb O. 37:21.92 David Ah, someone who is very talented trivia I can't remember their name off the top of my head something. Ah, it's that. 37:25.66 bizzyweb All right? Well we'll we'll come back to that if I he he runs on props that's for sure all right? So just just for quizzical. You know now that you're out. 37:31.39 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Narrator voice. It's trigvioran. 37:38.70 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, what if. 37:41.77 bizzyweb And Hubspot How many how many boot camps Do they have now. 37:44.84 David Oh gosh I think last time I heard this may have changed but I think it was like 15 different boot camps. 37:52.66 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And across multidisciplines. 37:56.20 bizzyweb Ah, well let's into thematically in terms of classes. How many are there So like like you you taught one of those So how many how many others are there. Not. 38:02.80 David Thematically in terms of oh you mean like. 38:08.49 David Ah, oh gosh. Ah I don't know tregby I because it it moved eventually into Hubspot Academy or I was a little bit distanced from it. But you tell us. 38:15.49 bizzyweb Yeah, there there are there are as we're talking about your life with us with hubspot it went from nothing to 2 now they're 8 different boot camps that you can and in 4 different languages. They're taught in. 38:16.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 38:27.72 David Wow And in multiple languages as well. Yep. 38:34.76 bizzyweb English spanish french and german so there are 32 8 times 4 so 32 different boot camps running every quarter of which now what was the biggest ah class that you ever had David. 38:37.78 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Can tell? yeah. 38:53.90 David Um, I maybe had 100 and I mean well I maybe had one hundred to one hundred and twenty folks across 6 different 6 different like instances of the class that I was running and Dan may have done equivalent. So maybe a couple hundred people. 39:07.48 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Wow Well hence the need for the breakouts. Wow. 39:08.34 bizzyweb Got you? Yeah I I my last pipeline generation boot camp I had 350 in 1 class across 12 time zones around the world which is in like no large part. Dude. 39:08.96 David Every quarter or so yeah. 39:18.30 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh. 39:24.35 David Unbelievable. 39:26.26 bizzyweb Due to the the foundational work that you did huh. 39:28.87 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Like that kind of makes the dialing section a little bit more tricky doesn't it when it's 3 in the morning. 39:33.95 bizzyweb How many in my lab in my last because you talked about the breakout rooms which is a really big part of it how many how many breakout rooms did my 350 how did I assign my my class to. 39:48.16 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I I think I remember this so I'm I'm going to guess but wasn't it like 50 39:54.59 bizzyweb Um, 85 I had nope I had 85 breakout rooms with 5 people in each breakout room. 39:56.92 David Holy cow zoom must have listed. They used to have a limit of 50 breakout rooms. 40:04.53 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb No my goodness. 40:08.47 bizzyweb I had 1 guy from Israel who I accidentally assigned to a room with 4 Ai note taking robots. 40:15.14 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah, oops to get call. 40:15.23 bizzyweb So now we can't now we don't allow a no a no taking robots. So the point is is um, you created something that is truly meaningful to dozen to to literally hundreds of people and I know you you did you want to downplay that but it's it's. 40:18.92 David Nice. 40:28.26 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, well. 40:28.66 David Yeah, yes. 40:34.10 bizzyweb Now So a so integral into the part of the Hubspot experience I Know it's um I Honestly think it's a privilege to be able to teach it teach my version of it because I'm taking over for somebody I really respect which is you open man but mostly you. 40:43.92 David Yeah I think it I Thank thank you I Think it's a really special program and I think it was launched in a very special time in a special community as well. I think what's nice is that as leaders of the program we could bring people together. 40:44.70 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh for sure. 41:03.90 David Again around a common mission and sharing something very valuable for that group. But the people that were there as well and showing up to these sessions and being willing and to go into breakout rooms and being willing to share with their peers. What their challenges were and how they were dealing with those challenges. Feel like a lot of the knowledge they imparted was from the curriculum and what we took them through but I feel like some of the most memorable things that people took from those lessons were those breakout rooms and those relationships and those other nuggets that they discovered away from the teaching that even we did. 41:35.85 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I want to dig into that for a second and and the content in particular because yeah, the sales skills one that you led was I think the most transformative for me and did you just have all of that in you did you work with a bunch of people to create that curriculum. Or you know how did how did those themes come up. 42:00.27 David Ah, yeah, that's a great That's a great question So I'm not really like a visionary type person I can't like sit around a room and come up with like methodologies out of thin air. But what I'm really good at is taking things from other people and kind of optimizing them. 42:07.64 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Talk. 42:16.54 David The the other thing I would say I think one of my superpowers is that I'm a bit of a slow learner and I'm not as much of an intuitive like type of person like I need to break things down to make them make sense to me I need to struggle with them a little bit I need to think of like different. 42:27.32 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 42:33.23 David Alternatives and make them make sense and that can often be like a slow process for me which a little aggravating sometimes but I do feel like I go deep and once I do get something I get it very well. So I think a lot of what the boot camp ultimately turned into was my journey through learning how to sell one of the. 42:50.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb The hair. 42:52.76 David Big principles of the you know the course the very first slide is like the 3 sales sale. It's breaking down even a discovery call into again. You know what are you trying to like why are we here you know, then what might be the right solution for you then how does that solution get. 43:03.62 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here here. 43:10.69 David Ah, implemented and I just need things simple um, and so I feel like a lot of what I took I took a little bit of like Brian Halligan a little bit of pie cappuo a little bit of Dan tyre a little bit of Doug David off a little bit of other partners who i. 43:22.50 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb That. 43:24.94 David Ah, run into and tried to distill it down to something that could be conveyed easily and was also very actionable for folks and really the curriculum did not change very much and I think it's still very similar today in terms of the folks that are teaching the the discovery boot camp. 43:31.76 bizzyweb For fun. It really. 43:34.48 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Are. 43:43.11 David Because a lot of it was very um, evergreen type principles. It was just conveyed in the right way for the you know for the partners that we were trying to assist. 43:51.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 43:52.89 bizzyweb So fifteen years in you, you left for greener pastures what? What's what's next for you. 44:04.99 David Ah, yeah, so part of it is I'm I'm taking a little bit of time. Ah triggery it's it's it's a good question. What I contemplated ah for a while you know doing this for 15 years having a a great time doing it but eventually just I got to a point. Ah, where you know my my kids are out of the house at this point which is really lovely I want to do a little bit more traveling. Um I want to figure out the right next thing for me but I'm in a position where I could take a little bit of a breath in order to be able to do so so. That's that's some of what I'm doing right now. 44:32.71 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I Feel it. 44:39.86 David Ah, in addition to um, spending a lot of time on the pickleball courts if we have any pickleball players within the in the community hit hit hit me up. Um I've been doing a lot of that. Um. 44:42.11 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh yeah. 44:43.24 bizzyweb You. 44:52.18 David Been doing some offline type ventures which is topic for a different call but around ah E-commerce Business Acquisition. So I have a little side gig going on at the same time and then the the next thing that I really want to do that I haven't had a a ton of time yet or mental energy yet. But it will be the next thing that I'm. Looking into is to do some exploration of how I can continue to use my skills in terms of sales coaching and enablement to continue to make an impact on other firms and I've thought of a couple different ways that I can do that So One is fairly straightforward which is in a sales coaching or sales consulting type of a role and I might. 45:16.43 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Little. 45:28.68 David Start to explore a little bit of that if there any folks that are interested in that that I might be a good fit for hit me up. It's something I'll be exploring over the next couple months don't quite have the model for it yet or exactly how I'll do that or how I'll take that to market I know how I'll do it. But how I'll take it to market. But that's something I'll I'm considering. Second thing which is a little bit more exploratory in nature is I want to continue to explore this intersection of community and sales and how companies can use community to better enable both their partners but also their prospects and customers. 45:53.46 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A home. 46:04.87 David So they can drive more selling. Um, you know I worry a little bit about the future of sales with with Ai and how a lot of the work that like you do as a salesperson which is like looking through lists and doing research and answering questions and a lot of that can eventually. 46:09.12 bizzyweb Um, from. 46:22.67 David Potentially be automated, especially from a buyer's perspective a buyer think like I just someone to answer you know XY and z question or give me a list of pricing or come up with scenarios for me. But what I don't think can necessarily be replicated is this idea of potentially building community including among your prospects of folks that are on a. 46:24.31 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb More. 46:41.69 David Similar mission and path and both offering help with that community but also having it benefit you through sales or you know deeper penetration within the market and I think there's something there in terms of bringing community out. Among a set of a universe of prospects and customers together that can both benefit them and and benefit businesses and I like to spend some more time coming up with some ways to do that I have some ideas but I like to come up and go deeper in that. 47:11.54 bizzyweb I think I think you're wrong about ai David I don't think Ai is ever really going to replace a good salesperson. But I do think yeah, it helps. 47:13.35 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb That would be brilliant. 47:27.43 bizzyweb Despite in sales speeding up your efforts for sure get. But I think in 2024 there's never been a better time. A more important time to be empathetic in selling and being clever couldn't matter less. 47:38.91 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, that's that's the thing that's never going to be replicated is the connection. 47:44.92 David Yep. 47:47.10 bizzyweb But being empathetic matters more than anything right now which there's an entire generation of people selling Crm Software who owe that to you and who who emulate you in that. So when as you're thinking of your next steps I think you should take note of the fact that the the work that you did should affect the next work because. 47:48.58 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Me. 47:56.10 David Yeah, yeah. 48:06.97 bizzyweb We're all out here just trying to just just trying to follow what we were taught by the man. 48:09.41 David Yeah I think that's a good point I I probably said that a little inelegantly in terms of Ai and sales where I do agree with you trigger me that there will be a place for empathy in the process and a human touch and consensus or stakeholder building and I do think all of those things are valuable. 48:22.34 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb What. 48:29.41 David Um, I Just think you know more and more if you think about being able to systemize systematize something that that is something that can potentially be taken out of a ah human Salesperson's hand and into an agent's hand. 48:35.89 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 48:48.22 David For instance, the empathy is is harder to do. But I think a lot of the sales process can be systematized what I don't think or I think is hard to systematize is building a community of people with shared purpose and vision and helping to unlock what's within that. 48:53.00 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 49:07.28 David Community especially if you have the right value proposition to help help them grow and further their mission in addition to tools like salespeople empathy and ai as well. 49:16.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? It it is a unique skill set to be able to connect with your potential customer sympathize empathize with them answer their questions and then start to steer a conversation to where it can be mutually beneficial. And as a group I think that is where a lot of the power came inside of my participation in these groups and so you learn so much in just being able to bounce ideas off each other.. It's it's fantastic. 49:48.30 bizzyweb So after 15 years and what was ostensibly a large tech startup and do now a a net a a New York Stock exchanged $2000000000 a year juggernaut what are some things as you reflect back on your on your time there. What do you What do you What are you happy about? what? do you wish you could have done differently. What are some? What are you taking away from your time at hubspot. 50:14.79 David Ah, good question now it was definitely a special time at Hubspot I think one of the things that maybe I knew but I I know more now through a fuller experience is um, you know well. Here's a thing interestingly enough I am not a big on change trigby and Dave like you wouldn't think that right I've kind of done entrepreneurial adventures in my life I went to a tech company I did sales but I'm I'm always on this mind like gosh once you once you can figure something out. You know you can just you can just leverage that. 50:39.34 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um. 50:51.93 David And use it and to some extent I think I found that a little bit with the boot camps because a lot of what we were selling were evergreen type principles in terms of sales so that worked out really well for me because I like to figure out again I take a long time to to get comfortable with something to do it well and then I like to to do that. So in general. I'm not good with with change. But I think working with hubspot and working within the parter community and working you know to sell the hubspot product it like taught me like things change and things change a lot and I I remember you know one of the things that Brian Halligan would always say is like we're you know we're in the second inning here of a 9 inning game and I think that was very true. Um, but sometimes you got you got to rip me like kicking and screaming. Ah you know to keep up with change and I think it's something I'm a little bit better at now for having gone through it. Um. I think it is very challenging. You know if if if there are people listening that call that are in the hubspot ecosystem their hubspot community or that work at Hubspot or Hubspot Partners you you know it too because you you feel it. You know the product changes. It's hard to keep up the you know the go to market motion. 52:02.79 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Like. 52:07.90 David Changes the the partnership agreement changes just when you like figure it out and you you think you know you think you got it right? Project lion changed right? The sunset of project lion after after 5 years and for good reason like there were better ways ultimately to bring the knowledge. We had out through folks trigvi and the academy and cams and different arrangements. But I think all of those things are very hard to learn sometimes when you're going through them. Um I think now I have the at least at this moment in my life and at my time I have the privilege of being able to look back on those things and saying damn that was really painful. 52:31.71 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 52:43.59 David Like to go through and hard and challenging. But I I don't think I would want it any other way I think it gave me a much better appreciation. Ah for growth because as much as I'd still like to be you know, telling people you never heard him about marketing. You know what you could do with your website. Like you know that wasn't going to stay consistent for 10 years but I ah really appreciate too. I think about hubspot the company and the people I work with and the partner program is it can be hard to adjust to this? No one's pretending that it's easy. But I think the community is all coming from a very good place. Ultimately helping people helping them market and sell better and if that means we got to change and roll with the punches sometimes and and and and and work through them together that we know because we're all coming from a good place and trying to go in a good place that we're able to adapt to those things. So I have ah I have a better appreciation for that. At this point. 53:44.66 bizzyweb Ah, wow. Awesome! Ah so one last thing before we wrap wrap this up. Ah I know what David's ecommerce ah side Hustle is and if you know David I'd encourage you to reach out and ask him about it I know I'm not i'mnna respect that he doesn want to talk about it here. 54:00.34 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Fit for. 54:02.33 bizzyweb But it is the most awesome and hilarious thing that given he just talked about how he doesn't like change. It is it is the most eyeopeningly cool thing. So definitely if you know David reach out to him about it. But. 54:14.78 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And it's It's a fun teaser because you're not going to guess it? yeah. 54:18.56 bizzyweb Not in a million years. 54:21.90 David No, and I'm not I'm not the face of the of the product which is why I'd rather stay away from what the exact product is on this call but I love talking about it. So if anyone's interested in the world of Ecom and and small business ecom acquisition I'm always happy to chat about it. 54:29.48 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um. 54:36.62 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb For sure which leads us to our last thing. How do how do people get a hold of you David. 54:36.70 bizzyweb Absolutely. 54:41.49 David Yeah, so the the best way to get a hold of me is on Linkedin. You can find me last name is w e I n h a us first name David of course and happy to make connections with folks. And correspond a little bit although I'm I'm having a little bit of downtime right now. So just be patient if if the you know the back and forth can take a little while to do but I very much welcome connections and conversation. 55:11.49 bizzyweb Okay, after my captain David thank you doesn't seem to encapsulate it. But thank you. 55:17.17 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Never even close. Yep. 55:19.74 David Yeah.