00:02.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Trig v I got a interesting package in the mail a couple of days ago I waited and left it on my desk and then I figured you might need it and I did open it so sorry about that. But it's a little bit worrying the cover. 00:14.12 bizzyweb Oh way was it was it The oh wasn't the one at the flame brought below. Okay, yeah, ah yeah I probably should have talked to you about that I booked a great guest for the podcasts. 00:18.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb The cover of the book says hired. So what's going on. Yeah. 00:34.00 bizzyweb It's it's not about me. It's ah it's it's about the podcast ice swear I where our guest today is the author of both of the books in the book in in the in the package hired is is the first book and then in. 00:39.22 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I'll way to tread water. 00:51.10 bizzyweb Ignite engage retain. Ah George George Murray is our guest today George is ah is a award-winning author and it's based on his own experience. Not only from hiring perspective but also as. Ah, longtime sea level employee so Georgia in Georgia's ah also served internationally and is is also offers individual coaching and businesses ultimately just a really cool guy and so I thought. 01:10.33 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Up in charge. 01:27.28 bizzyweb Sense. He knows so much about job transitions and a blood employee retention I thought that'd be really great but then I forgot to tell you that so that's why I got a book that talked about how hey George welcome. 01:36.89 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Okay, well all all is forgiven and and George great to see you. 01:41.83 George C Murray I appreciate it I'm humbled and I am looking forward to the discussion. 01:46.75 bizzyweb Well thanks, So let's start at the beginning. What happened that you got the gift of unlimited free time and and no income from your employer. 01:59.29 George C Murray Well, you know, um I tell people that career transition is definitely humbling if anything at all. It is definitely um I think a time for self-reflection again the last couple of months or excuse me last couple of years with post covid where a lot of people have kind of secondguesed the roadmap. I found that career transition is a motion roller coastaster ride and you're more tied down than you are up and so I decided I I needed to write this process because there's a lot of great books on it but nothing ah about the entire process from a time that you left to the time that you land. How do you cut that time in half. 02:35.47 bizzyweb Yeah, and I think that's often the the challenge when you you change Jobs is you go through a grieving process because you spend more waking hours at work than you do just about anything. And someone that gets taken away maybe through fault of your own. Maybe not through fault of your own.. What do you do with yourself. So That's a jarring Enterprise So How did you handle it? What did when when you got let go and before you started writing the book and you decided to create yourself a process because that's kind of. You're a process Guy. You're a chief operating Officer. You've been in the military. Um I Want to say that you have a fair amount of engineering experience is that and operations. Yeah, both. 03:22.97 George C Murray That's correct. Yes, yeah I guess for me, the fact was is I didn't go well the first time the first couple of months I was very frustrated like most people. It's one of the things that they don't teach you in school that they probably should is you know how do you overcome. 03:31.14 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, it. 03:39.96 George C Murray You know job loss and and securing your next opportunity and so you know after you know, probably a prolonged timeframe I just looked in the mirror and said hey you know what? I'm just going to control the things I can control and that's kind of the big separation I think people realizes. There's a lot of stuff out there. You just can't control. I don't know if I'm going to get hired today but I can at least have gratitude for the things that I do have and I can actually start to build on that you know even if you've got a very very small network and you're an introvert like I was back in 2016 you can speak to family and friends and then that kind of multiplies as they introduce you to folks. And as I said you know in career transition. You want to spend at least 99% of your time with people in jobs because you want career. What I call career cheerleaders in the workforce speaking your praise. 04:22.77 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 04:30.62 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb That makes a ton of sense. 04:31.82 bizzyweb Wow. So what in the in that first element ah did did you kind of I think when when I've been in that in that space. What I did is sort of created a schedule is that and is that that. 04:43.00 George C Murray Um, yes. 04:47.42 bizzyweb From X to Y I'm going to do this from Y to Z I'm going to do this and then I'm the other thing that I did was take personal time and get outside walk around. Do something else is that kind of what just to create a certain discipline and a cadence or. 04:53.79 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb That's 10 personal. 04:57.62 George C Murray Absolutely. 05:04.92 bizzyweb Get your mindset on what you're going to do every day and you you talk about that right. 05:05.58 George C Murray You are spot on. Yeah you, you're spot on as matter of fact I call it I label it the day in the life. You know prior to losing that opportunity whether it's a reduction in workforce termination et Cetera is is that. 05:13.24 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Fear. 05:21.17 George C Murray You've left a structured life. You know you got up a certain time you did certain things you went to the office you had meetings you had kpis all that is white and if you don't put that process in place before you know it even though each day may seem like a month before you know that three months go by and you you have very little to show for it. So one of the process steps that I help people in job transition is is what am I supposed to do hourly daily weekly that moves the needle in the right direction. 05:47.26 bizzyweb And is that all just reading websites and firing resumes What? what? what? what else goes into it. 05:54.46 George C Murray Ah, absolutely not. You know as a matter of fact and we're going to client right now I've been out for you know and a number of months almost a couple of years and over five hundred resumes submitted no job interview. Well if you know what. 06:06.93 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Wow. 06:11.41 George C Murray Percent or less time you'll secure an opportunity through submitting a resume so ah, less than 1% secure an opportunity through submitting a resume. Um. 06:15.35 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 06:16.21 bizzyweb Say that again because that's a alarming statistic that I think needs to be repeated. 06:28.54 George C Murray And you see him on Linkedin I'm sure you have in the last six weeks you know with all this tech layoffs the national average to secure your role through networking is 80% of the time or greater so where are you supposed to spend most of your time networking. Yeah absolutely. 06:43.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Networking for sure. Okay, well and I bet it probably compounds the fact that most resumes are read by robots now and if you don't have it like it. Maybe maybe he was sending out the wrong kind of resume or it wasn't you know, readable or scannable or something or. Yeah, was just the wrong. The wrong algorithm was leading him to the wrong things right? So you totally need to mix it up right. 07:03.63 bizzyweb Well wait wait like before you get before you get to George I think you also just shared something particularly revelatory dave about the robot. So can you let's roll that out explain to the listeners who might not actually know what exactly is that George can you. 07:13.81 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A Ah yes. 07:17.46 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A sure. 07:22.70 bizzyweb Ah, illuminate that because I you're the. 07:24.30 George C Murray Sure the automated the automated tracking system that all the ah Hr folks love to hate and hate to love I Think it's a process in which it screens out the best candidates and for that reason that's part of major frustration with people in job transition as well as people in the work environment. 07:29.53 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb The world. 07:42.13 George C Murray Is is that it's lost the the human touch factor and that's really what you're going when you're through the interviewing process. It's really trying to figure out hey can I work with this person. A are they qualified Well the resume will tell that now I need to figure out can I have you know can I go to lunch with this person after a really tough day. 07:44.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 08:02.14 George C Murray That's kind of all that process and it's not in that Ats system. 08:04.16 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? right? The the scanner bot won't won't necessarily tell you if that person is a good hangout candidate and. 08:12.20 George C Murray Yeah, exactly. 08:17.42 bizzyweb So um I think those things put together I think are are shocking because I think everybody is sort of built on that framework of find a job application figure out if you're qualified send a resume and so. What I know when I came out of college in the 90 s in the early two thousand s I would agonize over every turn of phrase on my resume and that I would go over and over and over again. But you guys are saying that that's not actually helpful as much anymore. 08:47.40 George C Murray No, um, a lot of the processes are really antiquated their old twenty years I mean submitting a resume is really not the I mean and I see that a lot of times especially when I was in first career transition. Oh here's my resume. Well. 09:00.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb He. 09:02.16 George C Murray That's really not a way Great way to lead off. It's really to get and develop a relationship over a period of time and the and the resume is really an afterthought right? It's like hey just send me your resume I've I Really I've confirmed that you've met the expectations and I think you'd probably be a good addition to our team. 09:08.88 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 09:19.54 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Sure one of the things that we you you just mentioned it with the candidate that you're that you're coaching is there's sometimes especially in times of Covid a pretty significant gap in employment. 09:19.54 George C Murray Ah, by the way send me your resume. 09:34.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb So how do you share with people or how how do you encourage them to share what they've been doing or you know to kind of cover that gap. 09:41.52 George C Murray Yeah, as a matter of fact, one of the challenges is you know reestablishing who you are in job transition right? and so a lot of things I mean my first career transition after the first three months of frustration I looked in the mirror and I'm like okay well I hadn't at a. 09:49.85 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Many. 10:00.59 George C Murray Web very well in the last probably a couple of years and I've gained a bunch of pounds I'm not sleeping well and now it's time for me to really focus on me so in seven months in my first career transition I got out awkwardly walked jogged started running and I dropped £42 well, that's not only going to. Help you physically and emotionally but you're going to have more competence because you feel and look better and you have more energy right? So it's it's really you know back to that day in the life. You know how do I structure that and then how do I continue to tweak that on a regular basis. You know every. 10:21.24 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb 1 10:35.35 George C Murray I had a regiment every Saturday from 7 35 to 15 It was kind of a a stop start continue model. Okay, what am I going to continue because it's bearing fruit the last couple weeks. What am I going to stop doing because it's really not. You know, adding any value and then most importantly, what can I you know. Out of the last couple of weeks of networking with folks who've actually been through the process. Perhaps you know what are some of the best practice I might change and do. 11:00.32 bizzyweb 1 of the things that I know that when I was younger I really didn't have and I was in that position of job searching that I really didn't have a concept of is is something that I've come to learn later in life is what's now referred to as a personal brand and you talk about that in hired. 11:18.31 George C Murray Um. 11:19.81 bizzyweb So can you elaborate on on what that is and what that means. 11:23.57 George C Murray Sure as a matter of fact, um, when I was in my first career transition me being I would say maybe less knowledgeable of personal brand I mean I always thought the product has a brand a company has a brand but does an individual have a brand and ironically it does you know it's basically how you show Up. You know on your social media personally etc and then how do you develop that over a period of time that says hey you're the person that I can go to if I'm struggling with my culture. You know you're a person that I can go to if I'm struggling in job search and I just don't know. 11:41.95 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb In the name. 11:58.20 George C Murray What my plan should be. 12:00.52 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb That's that's actually something I want to tap into for a second because we're in the age of oversharing and we're also in the age of hyper. Um, this this or them and being being very kind of um anti the other side and you know everybody hates everybody now you really need to be careful in your social media posting. Don't you because half half of the people that you're potentially going to connect with probably don't share your beliefs. 12:13.58 bizzyweb Trolling. 12:22.79 George C Murray Um, yeah, absolutely. 12:31.32 George C Murray Absolutely, It's a good point because actually I put I pull it in the in the book is I actually was working with a client where they were going through final rounds they were talking through a board and everything and you know everything was going Well as you've probably been there situation. You're the guy you're the guy until you're not the guy. 12:32.75 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 12:49.25 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I mean. 12:51.00 George C Murray And you know you you just never realize that and after doing a little bit of searching realized that what they did in the final screening process. They went on all the social media platforms and realized that he had posted something on Facebook literally three years ago that just didn't. 13:09.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 13:09.44 George C Murray Align with the company values now you know as well as I do what does it take just to turn around and scroll through Linkedin for people that's post in the last couple hours right to go back 3 years and find something right. 13:16.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, right? yeah on my. 13:21.84 bizzyweb Are there I gotta think and I don't know if this is true or not are there services like we talked about the the ah the resume robot I got think there are services that you can plug into that says show me everything. That's. From this guy but I I don't know it'd be a lot of dog pictures for if it were me and and funny pictures of my son but I anyway. So George how is the job March bit changed since the pandemic. 13:43.80 George C Murray Yeah. 13:55.64 George C Murray Who um, well prior to the average professional was taking anywhere from 7 to twelve months to find an opportunity post pandemic. It got down to probably about three or four months right as a matter of fact I had a podcast to help people in job transition every other saturday. 14:02.14 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 14:12.79 George C Murray For a number of years and then in December of last year I shut it down because anybody who wanted a job had a job and then ironically enough all these tech companies started laying off and it's like okay where's all that information George and so I still think even in the last six to eight weeks 14:17.74 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. And. 14:30.91 George C Murray It's probably between three and five months to find your opportunity but the the best way to turn around and better. Your odds are creating kind of what we talked about the day in the life making sure that you have so you know. 14:32.49 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 14:39.61 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Nick. 14:42.84 George C Murray A value proposition over about an elevator pitch which really just drives me crazy that people actually do that anymore. 14:47.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 14:49.27 bizzyweb 1 of the other things that I thought really resonated from from the the first book that I read called hired was that you talked about the importance of networking and you ain't even shared a little earlier that you are an introvert by nature of that. 15:02.29 George C Murray Yes. 15:05.77 bizzyweb How did you overcome that and what can you recommend for people to to network. 15:11.49 George C Murray Yeah, um, a lot of people including myself is is that you know I'd rather sit in a room in the corner and not speak to anybody. However, what I found in a lot of the the initial discussions was is That's really going to be where I'm going to find my next opportunity. So I've got to find a way to do that and. 15:16.87 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Moment. 15:29.53 George C Murray We're probably all maybe in the same age group where we learned how to swim by our parents picking us up and tossing us in the deep end. Well, that's not going to fly for anybody. That's actually and an introvert right? So I help people kind of you know wade into the pool. 15:35.30 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, yeah. 15:35.50 bizzyweb And. 15:42.94 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 15:44.91 George C Murray And so that they can get into the deep end and hopefully the shortest period of time that makes them land their next role faster. 15:50.00 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Got it are are there common places that people should should check in with networking like is it meetups or chambers or how how do you encourage people to find those places to find the right people. 16:02.26 George C Murray Well, you know you can do a search in any particular major city to find out the networking. You know the meetups etc I always tell people to try all of them because the few that work for me might not work for you. But you're going to find 1 or 2 and I always tell people don't spend all your time there right? because. 16:09.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Check water. Yeah. 16:22.10 George C Murray I tend to people. There's always the the crowd that goes in there and tries to get everybody's card without actually learning anybody anything about anybody and that's not networking but I'd say go out there find it and then just say ah I want to talk to 2 or 3 and get to know these people really well developed a relationship over a time and. 16:28.23 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And bright. 16:41.20 George C Murray They may turn out as I talk about at the end of the book. You're part of your personal board of advisors in your career transition process. 16:46.18 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah. 16:49.88 bizzyweb I think the best um I have no shame when it comes to meeting new people so it but it it. It's also something that depending on the day I just maybe really don't want to do so the the best advice I ever heard with. With networking is there's a it's called the princess by bride methodology it 3 parts to it announce who you are give a common frame of reference and then talk about an expectation. Of what it would be like to work together now why that's the princess bride is you know first identify your yourself give your name. My name is in you of Montwa and then the second part is um, how do you give a common frame of reference you killed my father and then third. 17:32.87 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb My name is a niga montoya Yeah, you killed my father. Ah. 17:35.71 George C Murray Um. 17:43.17 bizzyweb Is it what? what can you expect out of our relationship prepare to die. 17:47.19 George C Murray Yeah I Love that. 17:47.73 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Correct right now may maybe don't go around threatening to kill everybody you mean, but it's that's ah I I Totally love that. That's fun. 17:55.70 George C Murray Yeah, my process is very similar. You know one of the things I try to tell people in your first networking meeting and and this is a hard thing with people in job transition. They think it's all about themselves I got to find the job and I try to tell people is that. 17:55.32 bizzyweb And what. 18:10.60 George C Murray Your first networking meeting should be split seventy thirty let the individual that you're talking to because they are honoring you by giving time because that's more important and costly than any money right? because they can't get that time back. So I say generally get an understanding of who they are. 18:19.43 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right here. 18:26.13 George C Murray How you potentially can help them and you can in job transition because you've got connections etc but truly get to know them and then at 30% is really to your point who are you? That's the value proposition less than 30 seconds who are you. 18:35.70 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 18:40.30 George C Murray And then more importantly, what value you bring to them or the potentially maybe some connections that they might know of and then the last thing is you're asked. That's one of the things I think I even myself in my first job transition the first couple of months I struggled with and I lost probably a good opportunity to really get the additional network connections. 18:47.75 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 18:59.67 George C Murray That would land my next role. 19:00.74 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Tool. 19:03.76 bizzyweb What? ah something that I've struggled with a lot I think is is probably good to talk about at this. But this point in the process is towards Ah, what's a what's imposter syndrome. 19:12.88 George C Murray But I love this I Tell people all the time you know, be yourself because everybody else is taken I Think what happens is is that when you get long in job transition. You get desperate you know and and you know I've seen this before you know senior vice presidents of sales are are willing to take a sales manager role right. 19:18.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb From. 19:32.40 George C Murray And so I kind of use it in the reverse aspect. It's like you know you're discounting your abilities I Understand why you're doing that right? but the fact is it's also going to send excuse me questions for the people out there. It is like this person really going to be engaged in this particular role. 19:36.82 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Now. 19:49.33 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 19:51.69 George C Murray You know because they can do so much more. So It's really important for you to really just be yourself and continue that process because you will find your next opportunity and ironically enough all the clients that I've worked with in the last couple of years. They've always moved On. To a better opportunity and that's why I always say that's the reason why the windshield is larger than the rear view just move forward. 20:15.45 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Knew I Love that. 20:18.58 bizzyweb I like that I'm gonna I'm gonna steal that. Um, yeah because I suffer from imposter syndrome too and it's something that I've been really trying to work on in the last couple years and I you know I've been at my job for a decade I'm good at I'm good at it. My bosses are generally happy but it's still every day sometimes it's a struggle to think oh god what if people find me out and and you know it's just one of those things you just got you have to recognize I think within yourself and recognize that it's. 20:40.16 George C Murray Um, then. 20:49.87 bizzyweb It's it's both okay to feel that way and also not really true at the same time. 20:52.81 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 20:52.91 George C Murray You know the biggest powerful thing that you can have is being comfortable in your own skin and that is truly challenging, especially when you're in job transition is because you're always second -guessing you know? Yeah I'm 55 there's ages you know all these things that. 21:02.83 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 21:10.50 George C Murray Are are weighing on people's mind. It's like okay what I've learned in the military you got to embrace the suck right? You just got to power through and you've got to be able to do maybe 10 times what you're doing now and you just got to find a way to do that. 21:14.99 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And yeah. 21:24.27 bizzyweb Yeah, and that's the the last thing on the hire hired side of the conversation today I want to talk about because what years ago I was thinking ah while I was thinking about us us talking day and I I remember when I was a recruiter. I was sort of a weirdo in that I would always look for people who were significantly older than I am because they were I I felt they were much more bankable as as a potential employee because they just had a different level of work ethic that that everybody else. 21:42.77 George C Murray A. 21:50.10 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Next. 21:52.89 George C Murray Sweet. 21:56.82 bizzyweb And they were overlooked because people were thinking oh I don't want to work with them because they're too old or they're too smart or they're better better than me you mentioned ageism which is why I'm tying this in this way is now I'm of the age where I you know 30 year old me would look at. 22:05.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb 3 yeah. 22:16.43 bizzyweb 47 year old me and go yeah, that's he's perfect. He's all just old enough. So how do people combat that in a digital age. 22:23.74 George C Murray Well, you know what's interesting is is that there was just a recent article that came out probably a little over a week ago on Linkedin of course that stated that the older workforce now is really coming into their own because a lot of business owners are realizing. Ah, the level of commitment that they have the level of dedication and they're always reliable those types of things especially in a low unemployment rate. They're starting to realize that you know these people are are committed and they're going to not going to be transitioning every six months or eighteen months into a new role. 22:42.36 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Meaning. 22:58.64 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Able. 23:00.64 George C Murray And you know that was been a struggle for the last ten or fifteen years is that hey I'm I'm 55 and I don't care anybody to tell anything it's it's really how you come across if you come off like you're going to retire in three or four years yeah you're definitely going to struggle finding an opportunity. But if you're ready to turn around and pull the rip cord still and jump out of the airplane. People want that they want they want leaders and they want people that they're excited to be around that can help them and can motivate them. 23:20.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 23:28.39 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? I think we actually met each other for the first time inside of a fractional um group that we all know and actually 1 of our recent podcasts was with John Arms of Voyager you and he's one of the very very big proponents of the fractional lifestyle but that's. Kind of the entire point right? like we have like the the experienced generations that we're working with have an entirely different level of not only dedication, but a depth of knowledge and adaptability that. 23:44.87 George C Murray Yeah. 24:03.13 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Folks that are brand new. Certainly don't have and there's just not that deep of well to pull from So it's a super huge and smart play to find people that are just willing to do the work and take what they've learned and apply it. 24:05.99 George C Murray Absolute. 24:14.45 George C Murray And by the way John Arms is a great guy I've I've known jobs for more than 5 years and he's helped a lot of professionals jump out of corporate America successfully. 24:21.12 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, great. Great! great. Great gets to. 24:27.70 bizzyweb Right? And this yeah well John will obviously be cackling when he went when he hears that. So ah I want to sort of close the book on the the hired and open the new book the the next book. So. 24:31.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, yeah, don't tell him don't tell him I want to make sure he listens all the way through. 24:35.23 George C Murray Yeah. 24:42.86 bizzyweb Um I think it's a great read to to help people who don't know what to do and who I think one of the things that you'll find if you're out of work is there's never and there's there's there's never a lack of resources but there's never a plan. And a discipline because there's all there's hundreds and hundreds and thousands of articles on the top 5 things you need to do but 1 of the thing that's really special about hired is it lays out a structure that I don't think anybody who if you're not ready for it. It. 25:12.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Many. 25:19.76 bizzyweb It's definitely worth it just for that. So where can people find copies of the book because I want to make sure that we plug the book as best they could well and. 25:23.78 George C Murray Sure yeah hired cut your career search time in half is available both on Kindle Amazon and audible. So if you're in the car and you just want to listen to it. Yep. 25:34.48 bizzyweb Well, that's right did and I wanted to ask you about that because I've never met anybody who has had a who has a book on Kindle did you have to record your own Kindle did you hire somebody. Ah. 25:42.68 George C Murray Yeah I hired my I hired somebody and there's definitely people out bed in there. Of course there's always the question. Well, it's not your voice George but I pick somebody that was relevant and also inspirational and they sounded a lot better than I did. 26:00.60 bizzyweb Wow Yeah well I work with this guy who's got a voice for radio all the time So I will I wouldn't I wouldn't say that but okay, so let's let's transfer to the next book. Let's let's let's close the chapter on that one. 26:00.29 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Amazing. 26:07.41 George C Murray That's what I kind of say I got the face for radio. Ah. 26:10.47 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, my face query you yeah um. 26:19.68 bizzyweb And you know whatever dad joke you want to apply here and tell us about Ignite engage retain. 26:24.44 George C Murray Yeah, so this is really kind of what I would call my signature book it it was it would have been the first book I wrote if you told me I was going to write hired 5 years prior. What has told you you're crazy but ignite engage retain. Really a culmination of the last twenty five plus years experience and leadership roles that I've had and I actually reached out to more than 30 ceos cfos and chros to get their perspective and I wanted to say you know is this just my perspective is this just a minnesota challenge. 26:44.54 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb It. 26:58.72 George C Murray That we're having is this a us or global but it's a global challenge of how how do I ignite my workforce. How do I engage the team whether they're in a hybrid sense or what have you and most importantly, how do we retain my best talent and the thing is is that a lot of businesses are doing it wrong I mean. 26:59.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um. 27:17.78 George C Murray Like we talked about the ats system and everything else that always has to be revamped and it talks about in the book. But to me it's important and in the last five or six months shows all these technology companies were complaining about being able to retain now they're laying them off like crazy and it's like okay, you've really just tipped your colors. 27:27.96 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 27:34.96 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, and that's that's really hard and I think that's for for me as as a business owner you know this is this is where I really you know, devoured the book because it's like you know what we need to do is keep the people that we have. 27:36.79 George C Murray Right. 27:54.48 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And the worst thing that you can have is a disengaged person that stays on so you know if if people are just pulling the pull in the cord and we've we've had experiences I have a client that actually had this experience. They went through and they had a writer that was working with them that we were partnering with. And um, they were on contract. This person was on contract and we found out together after that person left that they had basically not done anything for the past month so there were like dozens of blog posts that weren't written and articles and all that stuff. And that's that whole quiet quitting thing right? So how do how do you combat? the the quiet quitting and and just the general apathy that a lot of people feel especially given all of the remote work and stuff and all the new challenges that are in there. 28:34.11 George C Murray Yes, yeah. 28:49.45 George C Murray Yeah, um, good question. You know one of the things that I've seen over the course of the year and you've seen a lot of articles that really prompted me to write this book was is that this lack of employee engagement right? and all these metrics right? You know. 29:01.11 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You know. 29:03.36 George C Murray Only 16% of the workforce is actively engaged etc. And so what I realized was is you know I've come behind. Let's say less thans desirable leaders and found that it's really the leaders that are not engaged. It's a reason why the employees aren't engaged right. 29:16.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 29:18.11 George C Murray Not in their office or they're in their hybrid Sense. You know, barking orders from their home office especially through Covid and you're not really actively engaged in understanding what their trials and St tribulations are and their aspirations and how are you aligning that to the business goals and objectives. So that you can develop a career path for each individual and you can do this now you know gone are the days that somebody's going to commit to 20 to 25 years because we just know on both sides. It's just not there anymore. But the fact is is you can actually develop a career. 29:37.21 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Any. 29:44.96 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb So right. 29:50.16 George C Murray Um, path for somebody that will stay with you between 12 years and if you can do that. That's a success as opposed to getting them to turn around every eighteen months so you've really got to be out there. You know, um one of the things that I did simply um during covid. 29:59.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 30:06.73 George C Murray Was I just hosted you know coffee chat morning and in in late morning for all 8 factories that I was working for and the response back was after we came out of covid very successfully by the way um, was is that George we not only understood what was going on in each factory on a daily basis. 30:09.65 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Death. 30:26.60 George C Murray But more importantly, we spent probably 70% of the time but just how are people feeling right? What's going on in your world. What you know? what's the temperature like in California versus in in Bostons Massachusetts right? and that just keeps people engaged. It's like hey they care about what I'm I'm about not just a number. 30:32.15 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, an image. 30:36.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Move. 30:42.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 30:43.73 bizzyweb When Ceos and C level people think how do they? How do they? What are some early warning indicators that culture is a problem in a company. 30:56.27 George C Murray Well first and foremost I talk about the the book is is that the culture is the shadow the leader casts right? So if the if the culture is not there. It's obviously coming you know from the top or at least coming from the top of the division or the department. So. It's really important for leaders. To be self-re reflective right? And that's a painful thing especially when you're go to open up to honest feedback. You've got to be willing to say. Thank you for the feedback. But more importantly, take action. The worst thing a a leader can do is basically ask for input and then never act on it right? and I've been i' been there and that's literally just. 31:29.22 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I do. 31:35.45 George C Murray You know career suicide in itself. But I think the fact is is just you know having those one on ones I say it basic. It's the basic stuff I'm an army guy you got to be able to read something on a battlefield in 3 seconds a return and re fire on a piece of equipment. So it's really got to be simple for folks right. 31:36.56 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And it. 31:49.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb New. 31:54.90 George C Murray Are you having 1 on ones. Do you understand the trials and tribulations that your team is experiencing and this is the difference I tell people that there's different. There's 9 different types of leadership. Um, and there's also the difference between managers and leaders. Managers bark orders and you know basically push you know push people push people push people versus leaders lift people up and make them more successful remove roadblocks for them to be more successful because when they're successful. The organization is successful and you are as a leader. 32:13.31 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb He. 32:20.31 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And he. 32:25.72 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I Admit that's one of my struggles as a leader is that I'm I'm pretty good at the soft side of working with people and checking in and and and working On. You know the the easy parts of the culture. But what I do. Tend to struggle with is the accountability stuff and making sure that you know people are actually doing what they need to do and that we're tracking and measuring and Improving. So How do how do you keep that delicate balance between making sure that people feel heard and cared for. 32:44.52 George C Murray And. 33:00.68 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And making sure that they actually do the things they're supposed to do. 33:01.83 George C Murray Yeah, that is a science and I mean as I said every I mean we're we're in. We're in an environment now we've got 5 generations. You know when I was growing up early in my career. There was only 2 generations to manage and you think that that was difficult now try to manage 5 different generations. So. 33:12.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 33:19.62 George C Murray I think the most important thing is understanding. The people's skills and abilities and aligning them to the organization's skills and abilities as much as possible so that they feel engaged they feel. Um I would say empowered to make the decisions. But then you've got to basically ask them what I try to do is. I try to create create job scorecards for individuals so that they know? Yeah so that they know that hey you you have to do certain things on a daily and monthly scenario. But there's definitely projects and we need to have this. You know one on 1 or in a team environment to see how each project interfaces. 33:39.54 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Sure yeah. 33:48.57 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? And what. 33:57.45 George C Murray But more importantly, how we moving the needle and it's in your responsibility to escalate. That's one of the other things that businesses really have a difficult time is being able to create an environment that I can escalate without retaliation but actually get action. 34:03.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 34:11.32 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? And that that is just especially for the more junior folks that might not have ever had that relationship or been able to or encouraged to push back to raise your hand and say this this I don't get you know they don't want to admit weakness and so. 34:22.50 George C Murray Yes. 34:29.69 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Fostering that culture and I suppose it all comes down to transparency right? I mean you need to be very clear with both culture and with expectations home. 34:31.28 George C Murray Absolutely. 34:36.00 bizzyweb Do you think that that was that that person you were talking about Dave who didn't do anything. Do you think they they just they didn't feel comfortable doing that and asking for help or saying something and then it just got worse and worse or do you think it was something where the the quiet quitting. 34:53.82 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You know in that particular case I think it was probably after talking to that to the person's manager it seemed to come down to it was more of a quiet quitting thing where maybe they were just checked out and you know maybe there was there was some other issues. 34:54.52 bizzyweb That you talked about. 35:11.35 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb There as well. Like maybe there was some real depression to deal with which is an entirely different thing right? So you know the the age now and I think this is a good thing. But yeah, when we started working you know the 3 of us. Um, middle aged sorry sorry to give it away if you couldn't compel from from looking. 35:12.50 bizzyweb Yeah, right. 35:15.46 George C Murray Um, right. 35:25.79 bizzyweb Out. 35:25.81 George C Murray That. 35:29.92 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb But we have we all have a little silver and ah for for us when we started working there was no such thing as you know how's your mental health. But now you know a it's It's much more pronounced and and ah visual in in the society. 35:37.81 George C Murray Um, yeah. 35:48.41 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb But B I think there's just so much more issues with social media and isolation and all of that stuff that it's just it. It is tougher out there right now. So how how do you deal with that and how do you? How do you keep an eye on your employee's mental. Well-being. 36:07.88 George C Murray Well, you know one of the things in the last couple years I think first of all a leader's responsibility is be a lifelong learner and part of that is you know what I have learned in the last is really understanding body language because you know the the voice can tell you 1 thing but the body language would tell you another. 36:07.91 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb But aside from just culture. 36:14.62 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Complete. 36:23.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb May we. 36:26.96 George C Murray You know people leaning in versus kind of late back. Whatever checked out. Those are the things when you're speaking you have to really be cognizant enough to say oh you know what I realized speaking in this forum that you know Sally was over there kind of looking ah looking over in the distance and really not paying attention and then. 36:43.61 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 36:46.29 George C Murray Making it an effort to go back to that individual and say hey listen you know what? I'd like to get your perspective of how that discussion went um and back to your point of creating the environment. We are inherently grown up to be. You know don't raise your hand, don't call somebody out. Don't get them in trouble. 37:02.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 37:04.75 George C Murray So you've got to be able to change. People's beliefs and environment so that they feel comfortable with doing that and once you're able to do that and you can't do it on the dime you got to be able to over a period of time. But when people realize that hey I brought an issue up and it was resolved and it didn't come back on me because. 37:13.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb 4 1 37:23.73 George C Murray My effort was to either improve something or improve somebody's you know, mental capability, Stability etc. I Think if there's a genuine interest of an individual you get that power back and the overall organization becomes better for it. 37:38.95 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb For sure. 37:39.35 bizzyweb You talk about the book about employee employee burnout. What are some of the early indicators and warnings of employee burnout. 37:48.74 George C Murray Well one of the things is really just body language right? Maybe their efficiency has dropped or their ability to ask for more work or projects. You know that Sally's always been an a player right? and you know the first project that comes up. They're always one to be beyond that you know one of the examples I use in the book was. 37:51.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Just body that right? Maybe there see a strong or. 38:04.33 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb They're always talking beyond. 38:08.63 George C Murray Talking with a client they realized that you know they were in covid and one of the people that was on their team was always engaged but recently in the last three or four months we found out that they weren't asking for new projects, etc. And I asked that person hey you know I think it's probably time to have you know, maybe weekly check-ins with this person right? because a they're in an home office environment. They're not really exposed to interface et cetera during that time and so I so I gave her a couple of examples to kind of get her back into the fold and. Simple things you know like hey I noticed that every time um that she was on online. She was always had this $9 Starbucks so I actually did door dash and did that for a couple of times just to recognize that and that just basically turned her overall performance. 38:53.11 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Fun. 38:59.17 George C Murray After three or four months of not being engaged. She was back in it. She was asking for more projects. She was asking. You know how do I get to the next level and that discussion between the manager changed for the better. 39:02.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 39:10.17 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. Excellent. 39:14.25 bizzyweb I've always said you can always you never underestimate the the power of power of sugar One of the yeah one and it's certainly true. Um, what are some of the. 39:21.35 George C Murray Ah, it's the most addictive drug. 39:29.70 bizzyweb Most Ah, how do you? How do you? Gauge culture. How can you really get around get your fingers and hands around what your culture is is it measurable or is it one of those things like the supreme court definition of porn where you just sort of know it when you see it. You know what it is and when it isn't. 39:45.12 George C Murray Well, you know culture is definitely different thing to manage in every organization right? But I always tell people is that if you don't like the culture. It's probably because you you didn't do something as a leader right? So I think first of all, you got to really understand. 39:50.98 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Me. 40:02.85 George C Murray Your core values I mean a lot of companies basically develop core values. They slap them on the wall and they don't do anything for Them. You know people like well what is they they point to them. They really don't truly live them and breathe them. So when you're hiring and you're promoting and you're you're mentoring and coaching to the core values that you think were so important for the business that helps really kind of you know, adjust the sales I Always tell people you know and I've been going in a lot of organizations and improving and turning things around I Hate the word turnaround. 40:31.92 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 40:33.67 George C Murray And I hate the hate change. You know the change agent because a no one likes to change right? and I love this because I actually wonder the ceos like well we need a change agent and and I said okay, well let me come to your home. Ah, you know your home office on Sunday and we're going to change some things whoa whoa whoa whoa right? And it's like okay. 40:48.50 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 40:51.84 George C Murray Well, that's how people feel right? but I always tell people that you can enhance everything right because Enhancement is like I'm not throwing the baby out with a bathwater but I'm tweaking things over a period of time and just like a sailbo I'm going to go in the right direction with those adjustments. And that's what it's all about is people want somebody that's going to recognize their efforts and the things that they're doing well outline the things that they need to improve on and more importantly, give them the tools that they can adjust to sales in the right direction. 41:20.56 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Cool. 41:21.27 bizzyweb Can you share So a success story from a company that successfully implemented what you talk about in the book. 41:29.30 George C Murray As a matter of fact, one of the tools that um I outline in the book and the terminology is creating a war in your organization now not the war that you and I or at least specifically like I did from desert storm Noah war to be. 41:38.66 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 41:44.32 bizzyweb Yeah. 41:46.40 George C Murray But it's with all resources. So what we did collectively is we worked with the entire leadership team to understand what is the 1 big thing that's struggling in the business and then what we did was we identified support for each particular discipline to say this is our focus. 42:03.92 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Excuse me. 42:05.45 George C Murray So their problem was is that you know they had probably two point seven million dollars in backlog their on-time. Delivery was probably best 67% in the last three years so a not happy, not not making existing customers happy. Not being able to secure new customers and what we were able to do is we were able to pull that team together and in twelve weeks now granted prior to this this is twelve years this is ah 3 years of history that they never got better than 67% on time delivery and they never got better than two point one million in in. 42:36.19 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb In normal. 42:41.81 George C Murray Past due backlog in twelve weeks we went from that to 97% on time delivery and we cleaned up all but about $300000 in backlog in twelve weeks and they were trying to do it in the last three years and weren't being able to move the needle so it's getting everybody. 42:56.89 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Wow in. 42:58.60 bizzyweb Asked. 43:00.64 George C Murray Focused on 1 thing and then understanding how does my department help this department and how does this department help that department and that's the success. We're able to do in twelve weeks 43:10.87 bizzyweb What advice do you have from managers who are struggling to create a positive workplace either in the middle or the sea level I you know you talked about the shadow the leader casts I think that's great. 43:17.20 George C Murray First cast. Yeah I would say first is selff reflectionction right? Do the do a self assessment where're we're hard you in your culture. And more importantly, where you want to be that's kind of my why is helping people define where they are and where they want to be and then more importantly, what support do you need at each particular step and again this also may be looking at leadership right? Because. You may have gotten to a point in an organization where certain leaders have really tapped out their capabilities personal capabilities as a matter of fact in my first book I met a great leader when I cold called the Ceo and he was so prominent. He says you know what? George I know that. My current organization's one point one billion I can take this company to 2000000000 but after that they basically need to find a different leader that was so powerful because he knew his limitations. He knew his capabilities but he was having fun in the trenches currently in his role and I think that's one of the things leaders really need to understand is. 44:16.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Then it went. 44:28.11 George C Murray What's my personal capabilities and restrictions and where am I short and can I get the resources to help me so that I can move forward because the leader's responsibility, especially a Ceo is to look out 3 years from now and say it's great and the chief operatings officer responsi is to create that road right. 44:39.16 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 44:46.52 George C Murray Put all the obstacles put all the the people you know, waving traffic and bringing in the concrete and everything else and the people that are doing it every day have sometimes a difficult ability to see that 3 year so it's the leader's responsibility to say here's what your role is going to do in order to get me to that vision. And if you're not doing that. That's probably 1 of your biggest struggles in your organization is how does my role in the organization impact the growth profitability and success. 45:18.15 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Wow Fine Yeah, that's amazing. 45:18.28 bizzyweb Well I don't think we could have ended any better than that. So thank you George for joining us I want to make sure that if somebody's interested in talking with you. They know how to find you so if somebody's looking for you where did they find you. 45:28.89 George C Murray They they can they can call me on the phone 9 5 2 2 2 1 8 8 6 8 or they can email me at George C isn't Charlie Murray all 1 word at gmail.com 45:42.80 bizzyweb And where can and people define both books on Amazon. 45:42.44 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 45:47.25 George C Murray Yep, both books or they can get my website George Clayton C L a y s t I n murray all 1 word again. dotcom they're there 45:54.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Perfect and the books are hired cut your career search time in half and ignite engage retain ignite your workforce engage your team and retain your talent. Thank you George. 46:05.54 George C Murray Thank you guys. It's been a pleasure. 46:05.77 bizzyweb And thanks. Thanks George and and Dave next time I get a package just don't open it.