00:00.72 Hersh Trigby Why don't you do my intro because there's more chance that it will go awry. 00:00.87 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, and that'll be polite for me. 00:04.65 bizzyweb Well perfect, awesome because you just literally started talking as I was I hit record anyways. So where you just did your own intro. So all right pretend you're not here and Dave you know the greatest thing to pull on the operations people who work at busy web. 00:11.93 Hersh All right here we go? Yeah, let's go. 00:15.69 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, maybe it? um. 00:22.18 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I Know what is it. 00:24.12 bizzyweb Give them a client who'll say after they've worked hard on the creative process come up with a really good tagline. Really good a copy Really good design somehow put in front the client as client says I don't like it and. 00:37.11 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah, yeah, and no feedback, no interaction. Yeah yeah. 00:42.37 bizzyweb That's it. No yeah, yeah, so ah, we've been trying to coach the clients a little to help about how we can. You can give more things and how you can talk about authenticness because that's one of the things that we try and. Tease out with our clients is it is being authentic and being true. Don't over words smith don't use 12 words where other things can't it can work talk about beef be truthful and it's ah I think we could use a little help so I brought in a pro today. 01:13.27 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb O. 2. 01:21.15 bizzyweb So our guest today is herrs rapoon which is repoon is actually how you pronounce his name because I asked and even asked him how to pronounce it I pooed it so the comedy is starting. Ah her hirs is a longtime standup comedian. 01:35.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um I Love it. 01:39.15 bizzyweb And ah is considered a daddy of niche pr and he was one of the first people in the world to curate images of filmmakers composers editors in the commercial production field. So he's also ed teams and Pr Creative Brand Strategy and is the host of not 1 but 2 podcasts. 01:50.17 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, schooling. 01:59.12 bizzyweb Ah, which I just think is tremendous one. Ah one of which is called truth tastes funny and the other is it is called Brand Pr Yes brand. Yes, yes, yes brand So ah. 02:07.66 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Or yes brand right? Yes, yeah. 02:17.16 bizzyweb Yeah, hey Hersh how are you. 02:19.50 Hersh I'm great Trig V Thank you so much for that stellar introduction and for the rest of the introduction and wonderful. The easiest part is the is the name of the second show. Yes brand. 02:24.35 bizzyweb That okay. 02:25.68 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah I love it. 02:32.40 bizzyweb Um, yes, friends. Yes. 02:34.22 Hersh And especially for you for somebody who's done Improv Ah, that's the easy part the repoon which you nailed on the second try is you know that's already puts you in an an elite. Oh don't don't don't get it out. Don't. 02:42.94 bizzyweb I Don't know what you're like about it because we're gonna edit out the mispronunciation. That's good. It's gonna on gag Real yeah. 02:49.79 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, we're going for authenticity today and likewise likewise here. 02:54.25 Hersh Don't edit it out. Dave great to see you as well. Thank you guys for having me I'm I'm excited to to be here. 03:01.37 bizzyweb Hirs I Want to ask you? Ah I want to ask you a deeply personal and kind of a bummer question. So when I went through Improv training. Um, one of the things It was very. 03:07.50 Hersh Um, okay. 03:16.00 bizzyweb It was a painful experience for me because one of the things that came out of it is I realized that I had spent the majority of my life apologizing to other people for being funny. So let's start with this when did you know you were funny. 03:27.00 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Do. 03:29.96 Hersh Um. 03:36.18 Hersh Um, I knew well I I definitely knew I was funny by the age of 7 I I use 7 for some reason 7 is a is a watershed year for me as a performer. It was I was in second grade I played the scarecrow in a school production of the wizard of oz it was the moment where I saw the reaction of an audience versus a just a classmate or a parent or a relative. So I think I kind of got. 04:07.87 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Nick that. 04:11.87 Hersh That I was funny but I think when I went and and it wasn't that the performance was strictly a comedic performance but it was very magical for me and so I think that was that was when I first realized. Ah this is something I go I put this out there and it gets this reaction. Ah, have this power to to to wield so that was that was really the beginning of it. Um, when the bruises started to heal. Um, no I I actually. 04:35.89 bizzyweb When did you realize it was okay to be funny. 04:49.34 Hersh I Think the ah I'm I'm fascinated triggered by the ah apologetic nature of because I do I do experience that but I think I experienced it in that there's something about artists and comedians and Jokers that's. You know, less than it's you know to to some people who are serious people and um I was encouraged at home and my my dad was extremely Funny. So I don't know that I ever apologize for it or felt that it wasn't ok I think. 05:08.80 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 05:22.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb See. 05:26.44 Hersh Career wise is another story. The idea that I would make a career somehow rooted in it is something that I that I really wrestled with. 05:38.45 bizzyweb Yeah I think for me what I had realized that getting into sort of especially an advanced level. Um, empire of training is I would be sort of an off shucks sheepish. Oh I'm sorry if I. If I offended and I would start conversations that way which number one? Um I think was really denying ah an essential part part of who I am as a person and number 2 It was also denying me the opportunity to have authentic relationships with people. 05:54.52 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 06:11.69 bizzyweb So I was then career wise in places where I didn't necessarily want to be but I also had put myself there and then being in a place where I didn't feel appreciated I didn't feel wanted Well, that's true because I wasn't being who I really was as a person. 06:28.52 Hersh No yeah I can relate to that that that that's it's interesting because hearing you say it that way it. It is something I really relate to because I I divided my my professional life into doing you know when I was in. In ah college and after college in New York doing standup and doing clubs and doing that thing and having that life and then working in computers or advertising or whatever I was doing to pay bills where I felt like especially when I was selling computers retail you know. And I was like ok I'm literally shutting my self down for 10 hours a day I'm I'm nobody I wore the same thing every day and I wore the same like ah denim shirt and jeans. Ah. 07:09.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb More one? yeah. 07:22.60 Hersh Every day you know there was no dress code. You just had to you know? Yeah yeah, yeah, 93 and um and I wore I did that as a like on purpose I had the same album that I was a Garth Brooks album listen to. 07:25.61 bizzyweb Denim ah um, and denim. So you're talking about the 90 s then. 07:29.84 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, a ah. 07:41.14 Hersh That I listened to during my lunch break every day I was like a zombie honestly? Um, but I and I think of that you know so there was that and it was like you could you that so that was a very tough. Ah. 07:43.36 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb With it. 07:58.37 Hersh Very tough time. 07:58.46 bizzyweb How did you go. 07:58.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And it's actually kind of fun and I I think there's there's a good analog to what I started busy web at because when I looked across the sea of cubicles at my brand new bank job that I started in Ninety Ninety Nine I thought that I had to do something to save my soul as well. And so um, that that led me to forming the llc that led later turned into this little company that we have and that trigby and I work at so I've noticed in in our brief chat. 08:18.99 Hersh Um, for her. 08:31.36 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Prior to beginning the podcast but also in researching you up hursch that you're a serial entrepreneur. You've got a lot of irons in the fire you're you're out there and you're working with all kinds of people and helping them craft brand tell us about what led to that entrepreneurial journey And. Kind of what your favorite parts of that journey are right now. 08:52.43 Hersh Thanks Dave! That's interesting because you know so many times we we have ah idea of who we are and this goes back to what trigby was also saying we have an idea of who of who we are or who who our destiny and or what we're supposed to be. 09:03.80 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, yeah. 09:10.83 Hersh And we either chase that fight it go with it. Whatever but we we forget that we still have choices like if I am working in advertising I must have chosen it versus going on the road as a comedian as opposed to saying oh I screwed up I should have gone on the road as a comedian. Or I should have done this I should have taken this role in this movie even though it conflicted with my obligations at Home. You know like you you think you're making mistakes or being unlucky and what you're really doing is you're making choices. You just aren't accepting that. 09:48.66 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh. 09:49.24 Hersh You're really making them and I think that when things started to turn around for me was when I like for example I never worked I was a copywriter but I did it on the side I were I had a different job representing directors and composers and editors and doing all kinds of Pr and. 10:00.64 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Come out. 10:08.49 Hersh Other semi creative stuff but not creating ads and I did it a little bit I would get asked by people to do but I never interviewed at an ad agency for a copywriting job I never partnered with an art director created a book. Um and went out there and and tried to get that that kind of job and. 10:27.71 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Page. 10:27.99 Hersh You know why? Why? not? Why wouldn't I go work at Sachi or some why couldn't I and I would go visit friends that were working at shy day in l a and had all these cool jobs. Ah you know and I was like what why? Um, why do I not do that. Okay I don't know just back of the head and I realized I'm always. 10:42.62 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Challenge. 10:47.94 Hersh Owning my own business or partnering in a business I'm always putting myself in a position of responsibility and leadership and then thinking that I'm supposed to be some kind of talent for hire and are you are you guys getting a little feedback. 11:00.50 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh yes. 11:06.88 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Know. 11:07.60 Hersh Or something. Maybe it's coming from my headset I don't know this should be off see this is one of those things where we one of these tech things because I'm getting feedback but I don't know if it's let's see if. 11:14.45 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh yeah, tech. 11:26.90 Hersh Where does it show. Ah, where does it show the um the the source the input all settings. Ok. 11:31.74 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You I Think if you hit the call settings in the upper right? Yeah, you're sounding great to us may that trigger me let's let's both pause for a second. Maybe it's coming from a or mute for a second. So on. 11:41.43 bizzyweb Yeah, I'm not back. 11:43.48 Hersh I won't worry about it. Um, yeah, so so I realize I'm always the boss and yet I'm so telling people I'm not a boss or a business person. But meanwhile I had started too successful. You know niche pr firms I had started a kind of a production outfit that was more of a community thing than a moneymaker but really good I had done done a foray into comedy I'd moved my family across the country from New York to l a I like had done all these things and I yet thinking. I'd even gotten hired to write some screenplays. Granted not you know I had written 10 or 12 or 15 that I hadn't sold but you know they I had done a hundred meetings in hollywood with a writing partner. Ah, who I adored and it you know didn't get any deals but like we decided to stop. not not hollywood like we just said this is bullshit. We were like why are we doing this where where it's crazy and and so. You know I realize that wow I have much more control than I thought and that's when the yes brand thing started to come together which took several years to really gel but the idea was yeah I really love working with brands I really have an ear for people's voices which is what I do in comedy. 13:11.79 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb What nice here. 13:11.98 Hersh Character voices accents things like that I'm a good mimic but brands need ah a mimic too brands need someone who understand their voice and listen to their voice and then makes it polished correct translated to their audience and impactful to their audience and I thought. 13:24.85 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Sure. 13:31.70 Hersh That is what I like to do and that is the best of what I've always done and so eventually I I owned up to that and that's when I started doing some of the other entrepreneurial stuff the Kosher brand which is a ah a purpose driven streetwear brand. Um. 13:45.89 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 13:49.81 Hersh That I put like a you know during the pandemic my business partner in that and I put like a year's worth of you know time of just kind of you know we didn't It wasn't purely altruistic because we didn't have anything else to do. We had a bunch of other we we worked in the Sneaker market doing. You know marketing and everything got shut down for that year. So It was like okay, let's do that. Let's revive this idea and let's do it and we made it real. But by that time I had realized. Yeah this is We can do this I can do this versus you know, Ah, it's I'm a I'm a talent quote unquote. And someone has to come and exploit me and pay me a lot of money for my talent and that's what I'm I don't know where I got that idea. But that's what I think my thought always was I'm this thing I'm supposed to be exploited handled managed. You know and directed and um, you know. 14:31.30 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Great. I Have you. 14:47.51 Hersh That was my that was my perception but it was a misperception. 14:48.72 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 14:50.46 bizzyweb Who is inspector Gerard Rouge 14:56.40 Hersh Ah, yeah, inspector Gerard Rouge so inspector Gerard Rouge is the the creation of a dear friend of mine who sadly passed away last year a writer director named boris de mast. And Boris was a ah client of mine twice. He was when I was in New York early in my career representing directors and doing pr for them via the company that I was at he was rep by that company and um. And we got along then and then when I had my own pr firm. He was a client and I did his pr he was a commercial director but very very gifted as a writer and filmmaker and um and so what happened was he? Yeah. He reached out to me during the pandemic and said I I see I had been making these videos on Instagram under an account called 3 times daily comedy three x daily comedy like the amount the doses of comedy you need to survive the pandemic. Basically I did it did it for myself and my friends I wasn't. 16:02.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Sure. 16:07.87 Hersh I still don't know how to market on Instagram so I wasn't really marketing on Instagram but I was was keeping me sane and my kids would be in it and you know we would do so I would do at least 3 times a day silly videos and he saw them and he was like you know I have this script for a ah. Ah, farcical detective series and I didn't write it this way. But I think you could probably play all the parts and he said I'll direct you he was in Santa Monica I was in Iowa City and he said I'll I'll direct you you know I'll advise you remotely you'll show me the takes. Well. 16:31.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 16:44.11 Hersh And for a couple of months we did this show and I didn't I had never done a thing before that like a acting thing per se that I had no writing role on and um and this was so off the wall and so nuts. 16:52.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Mean. 17:02.92 Hersh With the first script he sent to me and I probably punched up a couple of jokes I don't and then after that I was like you know I'm not I'm not I'll throw ideas in I'll throw an idea and oh what if I did this like on set but I won't. 17:11.11 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Outflow ideas I mean oh St with. 17:17.71 Hersh Tinker with the script I'm going to leave it I'm going to trust you and I'm so proud of it and I'm so sad that he passed away suddenly ah last year and it was just a shock I mean he was you know, ah you know in his seventy s and you know was just a terrible loss and. 17:23.94 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 17:32.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 17:36.63 Hersh I was like so glad that we got to do that you know because we had plans to in the in the aftermath of a pandemic get together and actually work together on something um in person but I'm so glad that we had the opportunity to do it. 17:52.89 bizzyweb Where um, especially now that there's a touching story behind it where can people find it. 17:57.53 Hersh If they go to to Youtube and they search inspector gerard rouge g e r a r d r o u g e and I think it's I think the account is straight arrow. Straight arrow pictures or straight arrow films and um and ah and that and the producer is a woman Andrea Keacott who was ah who was Boris's partner um and also of a friend and um and his producer. 18:16.70 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 18:34.88 Hersh And so um, yeah, so it's there. It's and if you search me and it's also on I am d b I mean for people who use that. Um so it's it's not hard to find and I think there's 6 episodes seven six something like that. 18:43.11 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, if on here. 18:48.74 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I Love it. Yeah I can't wait to check him out. 18:53.25 Hersh But and my kids are in it. We had my wife doesn't like to appear in the you know she's a little more behind the scenes. She's also been a filmmaker and stuff so shes but she's she's definitely a behind the scenes personality but 1 of my daughters ah to depeat it for the most part. She's 15 18:57.86 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb So sorry. 19:09.40 bizzyweb Um, wow. 19:11.58 Hersh But she was also in it and my other daughter whose 8 appeared in ah in ah in a couple of episodes. So it's it was fun. 19:16.51 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh wow. 19:17.32 bizzyweb I think one of the things that is is is very obvious about you is that you enjoy the process of creating and creating content and I think a lot of people. Especially if you don't have that sort of. Ah, creative juice they so they struggle with that and I think you've sort of frozen to the at like level of being a content influencer. So if you talk about how the work number 1 how do you and how do you come up with things. it's it's it's I know for me. 19:35.98 Hersh Um, yeah. 19:51.35 bizzyweb I I can't explain it it just it's just flows is that the same for you. 19:56.74 Hersh I usually react to something um I definitely feel I'm a reactor like even if I sit down and look at a blank piece of papers I'm going to react to something and that's what's going to make me write and. That's where it always starts so I can we can I don't it's not force but we can contrive the situation where a client says. Okay I'm going to tell you about my my brand and where I'm at and where I'm stuck and and I'll ah or they'll just they don't even know me. And they're talking to me at a party and I come up with something or I write something down or I say something? Ah, ah you know and I have an idea and response. But it's always it's always in response which is why I liked doing improv and Standup is. 20:45.53 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Head. 20:49.95 Hersh The response happened in the writing part or the vibe or the energy of the audience very rarely what somebody in the audience does or says because that's such as such a small deceptively small part of of standup but with Improv it's It's all that. 20:57.57 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb For the. 21:08.85 Hersh How fast can you react how fast can you give you know something to the partner. 21:15.18 bizzyweb That's the thing that a lot of people don't appreciate about improv is the punchlines are never the issue. It's it's the setup and the real genius of guys like Colin mockery is isn't how how fast and funny. They are a lot of people can do that. 21:23.20 Hersh Yeah. 21:32.43 bizzyweb It's how can I make you be fast and funny. That's something a lot of people don't get. 21:33.50 Hersh Yeah, yeah, the the the generosity of that art form is something that truly appeals to me and when you're watching those performers you watch you know Greg proops and you know all the. All those people Wayne Brady and you know I mean and people that have but gone on to you know to Snl and and and whatnot. But that that I think we saw that in the first season of s and l. 22:07.71 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 22:09.69 Hersh We saw we you know you you got that that thing that that was happening that energy that was there of of this giving giving giving to the other person to set them up. Ah you know and to hit it. 22:15.49 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb P. 22:27.77 Hersh You know when you're pitched something and they pitch something to you and you just hit you just swing at it. You're like so grateful that they just threw that ball to you. It's ah it is a it is great sport. 22:37.98 bizzyweb Absolutely. 22:40.32 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb With that's tremendous. Yeah, and it kind of strikes me that as as we're talking improv and especially as you've brought up a few times the idea of reacting and connecting. Um. 1 of the things that we do as a organization at busy web is to work with our customers to help them. Not not so much build their brand because we we kind of pick up after they know who they are but to express that brand and to really engage with their customers. So I think the the big. The big next step for us or what I'd love to hear from you Hirsch is what do you do to bring a brand around so that they can hear what their customers want and to start identifying with them. 23:28.28 Hersh Ah, that's that's a that that is a a real. Ah, that's a I was gonna say that's a tough one Dave but I say which it is which it is but it's so it's it's the it's the at the core of of the. 23:35.77 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? Good but Joe and yes, and yeah. 23:45.61 Hersh The client relationship the stuff that we do and and anyone who knows me has heard me say you know well they don't always listen right? Well they don't always you know and I and I do feel like that is kind of the the first step is me listening. 23:45.83 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Go up. 23:52.82 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 24:05.20 Hersh And letting them basically vomit out all that whatever they want to so say about their their brand and their story and their history. Um, but see if they stop talking because if they stop talking that means they are actually want to hear what you have to say. 24:21.68 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb R. 24:23.77 Hersh You know you've had those meetings where you you know you get called in. Well I called you guys in because I hear you the best then I went I went on I Want to now I'm building this and I'm building that and I'm doing this and I'm doing that and they did that but they were lying and they just so they sued me So what did I do I told me go fuck themselves then they ah call again. 24:38.38 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um I wake up the. 24:41.46 Hersh And then this guy's wife wouldn't shut up and I was like okay give it your way have it your way and then it's like but I can't go but the customer is telling me this and then what do I do and you're about to well then you know it So does it So but if they if they stop then you know it's It's fine. 24:59.31 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb M. 25:01.15 Hersh Right? If they stop then you're on the spot and you're you're they're ready for your feedback and I think that I think that that's you cannot now you can bring them around from their preconception about. Ah. 25:14.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb He. 25:19.20 Hersh You know what? they what they expect versus what the reality is we see ourselves as a blank you you guys me, we're trying to show them that really, they're perceived as a this but that's not a bad thing. Um. 25:21.35 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Sure. 25:33.87 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb M. 25:37.43 Hersh And that and that is that is you know sometimes I think that that comes with the development of the relationship and trust building the trust but their personality type is what I look for right away because. Even if they have like a lot of resources and they seem willing to spend money on ah you know on their brand and their message if I sense that they are totally not a 2 way machine then then I won't kill myself to to to be heard. 25:58.70 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, and it. 26:04.22 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 26:11.14 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb So you know. 26:12.85 Hersh But there is also a point at which there's a difference between listening and doing and clients will often say Okay, you're I I have had clients say this to me at big companies and say to me. 26:17.37 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 26:28.50 Hersh Okay, you're the news. There's a new sheriff in town I'm telling everybody that you you guys, youre you're you're it. You're the voice. You're the you're the they're not going to take any guff from you. They're gonna do it and then you know you give them an idea and you and you you you come to everybody with love and all this stuff and you give them the idea. 26:32.00 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Me hello. 26:47.55 Hersh And you say okay so is this when does a campaign start known of the brand says well my marketing director won't let me do it but my but the marketing ah won't loan. Let me do it. There's not enough money we can't do it and I'm like do you own the brand or you or you you don't you know. 26:52.34 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb No yeah. 27:02.81 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Over here. 27:05.36 Hersh Yeah, but I put them in place for a reason I have it So I've had that experience and I'm like okay you know you got a people if if I could give if somebody's listening out there and owns a brand. Ah and I could give them advice I would say. 27:08.59 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb We had. 27:23.54 Hersh It's not about it's not a battle between your agency and you it's you get get down with yourself and figure out what you want and who you are and who you want to work with and what power you want to give yourself and all of those things figure all that out. 27:27.89 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 27:37.81 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Okay. 27:43.23 Hersh And then maybe you don't call the agency or maybe you don't work with them. You know, maybe you don't want to make any changes like my story. Maybe I'm making decisions that I want to make and I just don't like that I want to make those decisions and you know I have to reconcile all that so that's okay. 27:46.12 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? right. 28:02.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Many. 28:02.28 Hersh That calmed me down after years of of fighting with the oh my god they won't spend the money they won't spend the money they won't do the media buy they said they were going to put a $100000 into this campaign and now they are now all of a sudden their perception is that the whole campaign is going to cost 100000 including the agency. 28:07.24 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 28:19.76 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You know. 28:21.56 Hersh You know and it's like and and and you know well figure out before that was because I wanted the gig that was what happened I wanted the gig to work so I wanted to believe that they were going to do what now if I met them I probably would think no, they're probably not ready. 28:27.79 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Great. 28:39.29 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Another turn. 28:40.33 bizzyweb 1 old thing. Yeah, one of the things that I've learned and I've tried to counsel some of our people on sometimes when clients you come with this great idea and this perfect concept and. 28:41.80 Hersh Do that and I would tell them to their face. You're not ready. 28:55.69 bizzyweb It solves the problem that the client has the client. It's just like and no and that's that's such a mode of frustration because well a I put in all this work. But B why aren't you seeing it the way I see it and so what I what I tell people all the time is ah, there's being right. 29:08.85 Hersh Um, yeah. 29:15.34 bizzyweb And there's being successful and sometimes they they don't overlap and sometimes if ah you can have the best idea and you can have the the right do the you can present the right idea for the client. But if they're not like and you can be right. 29:18.14 Hersh Um, yeah. 29:31.46 bizzyweb But if you you don't have them wanting to go along with that. You can either double down and say you know f you were out of here or you can say Okay, well you know you can still be successful and finish the gig and it might not be successful and it might not be something you're going to put in your portfolio. But it's going to be what they want and it's their choice to make and it gets back to that simple concept of of choice making. 29:54.50 Hersh Um, yeah. 29:57.11 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? And branding to me is less about who a company is or who a person is and more about who that person is to the people that matter most to them their customers or their audiences right. 29:59.61 Hersh Um, now. 30:11.88 Hersh Now. 30:14.33 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb So how do you have that empathy and react in advance to what your people are looking for. 30:21.52 Hersh Yeah, yeah, and I like what you said Dave about you know who who they are to the people that matter to them. Um, you know there's a ah actress named Alex Borstein she's a 2 time emmy winner. She's on. Ah. 30:26.30 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A a. 30:37.64 bizzyweb Love Alex rolls Griffin. 30:38.30 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, yeah, she's magnificent. Yeah. 30:38.26 Hersh Marvelous Mrs Maisel Co guards yes she she plays she plays um Susie in the the in the show so she has her her ah her first stage show like cabaret show and one of the and it's very like it's it's a cross between ah really kind of well. 30:53.22 bizzyweb Um, it's kind of trippy. Yeah. 30:56.58 Hersh Yeah, isn't it. It's trippy and but yet she's so sincere and and so ah open and so brave as a performer and she says you know when we talk about our perception and our image our body image all this stuff we call it selfim image but it has nothing to do with us has to do with I'm paraphrasing but it has to do with. 31:01.31 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Many. 31:12.12 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And then it yeah. 31:16.52 Hersh What other people think of us everything we're doing is for other people and if we looked at it that way we might feel differently because everything that we're twisting ourselves around for is for them. 31:18.91 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah. 31:28.94 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb With. 31:33.96 Hersh For somebody else. So when it comes to a brand that's not necessarily a bad thing. Everything you're doing is for the people that matter to you but who are those people you know and what are you doing for them I always say that there's there's no such thing as personal branding because all branding is personal. You know it's always personal. It's personal between you know frito layy and there you know they're hundreds of millions of of customers your billions of customers. 32:03.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, yeah. 32:07.95 bizzyweb And part of that is also knowing what what your own book says about you. You know if you know how people perceive you and you don't like it. You can work to defy those expectations. But unless you are open how it is um. How you are perceived and you have that Knowledge. You're not going to be able to take that next step. 32:28.76 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? So her who what are your favorite customers to work with as you do brand conversations and as you do all of the things that you do and you and we mentioned that you've got all kinds of irons and all kinds of fires. But. 32:29.45 Hersh Yeah, yeah, very true. 32:32.80 bizzyweb And want to file that. 32:48.30 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb For for the branding in particular is there a favorite kind of business and what makes that tick for you. 32:53.32 Hersh Really good question Dave because I have given this over the over the one of the silver linings of this horrible pandemic was that we were forced to or seized the time to think about what we want what we want to do who we want to work with. And how short our time is and so we don't want to waste it squander it and ah and we want to work with who we want to work with so an interesting thing that that came up is that I realized i've. Even since I was a very young person I always enjoyed working with the people at the very very top of ah of a business that goes back to that thing that we talked about earlier where I never worked in a gigantic company I never want to be a cog in a machine and so as a result I always worked. 33:42.18 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You you. 33:49.92 Hersh Directly with a Ceo directly with ah with an owner or founder and I feel like that still holds. You know it doesn't mean that I don't like working with their team or that I'm you know I'm a total team player collaborator as you as you have surmise I'm sure and. You know? but I but I really enjoy that personal connection with the person whose company or vision I'm serving and so that's a kind of ah a great starting point for me and then in terms of the types of business. I realize that when they're businesses that need a personal touch like you think of like you know Sas brands like you know, ah software as a service something that could be depersonalized or impersonal and I have the opportunity to. 34:35.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh. 34:47.61 Hersh Personalize and humanize the brand. That's the the perfect fit for me. Um. 34:53.63 bizzyweb What does humanizing a brand Really mean I think that's one of those things that as marketers we sort of understand but for the listeners can you unpack that away. 35:06.64 Hersh Yeah, um, you know humanizing a brand is goes back to that personal. It's always personal thing. Um, you look at the pieces as a puzzle you say okay I got a think of a kid's puzzle doesn't have too many pieces but it's got. It's got enough and they're like those little those little pieces the like the wood ones that they fit in a certain way and you say okay I've got a product and I've got you know the customer the perfect customer fits into it and I've got the you know what the company stands for its core. 35:28.23 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yes, yes. 35:43.36 Hersh Values and I've got you know the the pricing and I've got the the the ah um, delivery deliverables and you you put them in a in place and that's what makes it fit and make it work and I think that that creates a bond with the with the customer so what they expect and what you give them the transactional element of it is in there but 1 of those key pieces is how they feel about it. How do they feel about it when all those pieces go in place. So. Humanizing doesn't mean instead of you know, beating the crap out of our employees. We. You know we let them walk free in the yard for an hour a day huh free range employees right? We treat our employees humanely I would hope so. 36:32.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Free range employees free range employees. Yeah. 36:42.50 Hersh But I don't mean that I mean ah you know hat the beating heart of a brand is more than ever. You know you talked about authenticity in the beginning and I always throw the word out fo authenticity because I'm like ah you know there's. How do you obviously people want authentic when did that that became like up up until you know a year ago everybody wanted to be lied to no everybody wants authenticity. Both authenticity is where you you kind of use some kind of chicanery to create the illusion of. 37:08.50 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I writing. 37:21.45 Hersh Of of authenticity which is hysterical in itself. So I think that that there's a the way that I do it the way I make that contribution like I think everybody on the in the pipeline makes a contribution toward that bond right. 37:23.45 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 37:36.83 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb 2 37:40.20 Hersh So Management. For example, how they're relating to the employees that's going to affect the end product that's going to affect the relationship. You know you hear about ah you to to talk about the treatment of employees you hear about sweatshops you hear about discrimination in the workplace you hear about that does. Influence your perception of the brand and you may not buy that car or buy that brand because you've heard those things So there's There's reputational stuff. Um I can help with ah with some of the messaging around. You know are you being sensitive enough or are you doing you know, avoiding those false notes you know, Ah, you know if you're an absolutely heinous person and that's your brand then ok, be that there are other heinous people or other people that will. Kind of get excited by that and they'll subscribe to that brand and that's fine and and I think we're seeing that we're seeing a fearlessness about you know, doing things that are maybe you know we would think aren't aren't nice or or good and just being. 38:36.62 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? and. 38:48.25 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 38:49.10 bizzyweb If you mean that you to be Yeah, if you if you lean into being heinous and you know if you've just fundamentally jerk and you know that you you if you actually recognize that lean into that. 38:52.46 Hersh Celebrated for it. Yeah. 39:04.98 bizzyweb People really aren't going to be that surprised when you treat them badly and. 39:06.84 Hersh Yeah, and if they if they like it if they if they if they're conditioned that way you know to like it. Ok, but with that yeah you know. 39:17.99 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah. 39:18.55 bizzyweb Or it'll where to go in ah in one ear and out the other and just oh, that's personality Quirk Let's get back to work. 39:25.98 Hersh But I think when people want a different kind of connection where I can help is with the voice of that brand like like I talked about sitting down with the Ceo so I'll hear how the Ceo talks and I'll hear what's in their voice and I'll hear what's in their heart and I'll hear all these things. 39:34.00 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Enough. 39:45.50 Hersh And somehow I'm I'm I've become adept at distilling that into something that isn't necessarily coming from them because I I feel the third party voice is so important Third party validation is super important right? You can't can't all be me. 40:02.13 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Is Nick. 40:04.17 Hersh Saying hi I'm Bobby. So and so I started a ah stain lift thing and this is how it does now if that's the voice. That's that's great that probably is a great part of it. But what if you're doing like an email campaign. 40:17.47 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 40:19.73 Hersh And people don't need to hear the same bobby stuff over and over and you don't need to put him on tape constantly. But there's a voice. Well you know what Bobby says Bobby always explains that thing and god we love Bobby and and you come up with that voice. That's like that omniscient kind of you know, third party validation. 40:35.74 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Move. 40:37.96 Hersh Oh Bobby's going to be at the you know a certain thing the other that's better than I'm going to be here and I'm going to be there. You know. 40:43.19 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Cool. 40:46.60 bizzyweb I want to get back to something that you said that was really surprising to me. Um that I genuinely don't get um you said up until last year everybody really wanted to be lied to what. 40:51.36 Hersh Um, okay. 41:00.28 Hersh Although I didn't mean that they really wanted to be I said oh so with that with it with the authenticity thing. It's like I don't know that it's last year. It's more than a year, but the authenticity becoming such a catch were a keyword. 41:02.69 bizzyweb What do you mean by that. 41:13.84 bizzyweb Yes. 41:16.90 Hersh And people saying oh you know millennials crave authenticity gen z craves authenticity and it was like oh well so I didn't my generation didn't are you saying I I was a I was a BS ah craving you know society society member. 41:23.16 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 41:24.37 bizzyweb Gone. 41:32.69 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb For right. 41:34.74 Hersh No everybody wanted authenticity it for the most part. It's just we we we've recognized that a lot of people won't tolerate being lied to or being. 41:47.30 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 41:50.42 bizzyweb There it is there reason I keyed on that is my job Primarily is is new business development and so I sit with people all the time who don't know me and who have a problem. 41:51.44 Hersh Ah, hosed by brands. Yeah. 41:51.86 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Angle and. 42:07.72 bizzyweb That they don't want to tell me about and they don't want to admit, how bad it is and they are fully expecting that I'm going to lie to them or screw them in some way and so the way in which I win business is by. 42:11.42 Hersh Um, oh. 42:14.26 Hersh Right. 42:22.89 bizzyweb Being truthful and open and transparent and honest until they run out of reasons. Not to believe me so the only thing left is that old Sherlock Holmes idea of if the only thing left however implausible is with the only thing left then it must be the case. So. 42:39.98 Hersh Um, yeah. 42:42.60 bizzyweb I've found that if I'm not consistent with how I deal with people at then they're just gone So I mean that's that's kind of how I I I heard that in a different way than you said it. 42:53.61 Hersh Um, yeah. 43:00.41 Hersh Yeah, yeah, but that is true that ah consistency is is something we we haven't really talked about which is which is that the time that you take to figure out who you are before you brand yourself. You know like I say you know before you you brand yourself find yourself like get your get your ducks in a row about about who you are and it's because that will be easier to remember and to continue to Relay and build on. 43:21.73 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 43:35.71 Hersh Then saying oh I'm oh I'm this I'm that we're this, we're that you know and I and I think that consistency is so important it's important obviously in product quality right? You know a brand you know a certain you know, ah a brand that you buy. 43:39.34 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh. 43:54.21 Hersh And it's going to be the same every time and and and at this point you know as we get a little older I mean it's I'm so I guess I'm going through this phase where like I can't believe how long I've a certain thing has been around like what pops into my head is cocoa puffs. 44:08.22 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, yeah. 44:13.38 Hersh I don't eat cocoa puffs anymore and not even my kids eat cocoa puffs but I did every day for years and years and if I go into a supermarket and buy a box of cocoa puffs and I open it up. It's going to smell like cocoa puffs smelled fifty years ago right 44:25.39 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 44:25.42 bizzyweb Yeah, yeah. 44:31.63 Hersh And that consistency is what makes you know brands brands. 44:38.94 bizzyweb And it's it's it's to me. It's not with the consistency in the product. It's that it's the way it makes somebody feel is is. There's a dependability to that So in your case you know consistency is something that. 44:50.33 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Product. 44:52.12 Hersh Um, yes. 44:56.59 bizzyweb Is ah is an element of the product control of production if you make it the same way every single time it's going to have the same characteristics and then you as the buyer go in and you smell it and it's the first time and in 15 years that you've smelled cocoa puffs. This is why i. My wife buys a box of frankenberry every every Halloween or ah, the the it's it's the dependability of the memory comes in and and so then I'm not thinking of this is bad for me. 45:18.20 Hersh Um, ah yeah. 45:24.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 45:24.80 Hersh Um, yep. 45:32.47 bizzyweb I shouldn't eat this. My doctor is going to kill me because now I'm 7 and I'm back in my mother's kitchen sneaking it before she gets up and that's. 45:41.93 Hersh Nice, Yeah, yeah, that. 45:45.11 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb The date for. 45:46.91 bizzyweb They Dave parts about it this all the time is that I think it was what was it PTBarnum who said if you were trying to sell nails. You don't look for people who want nails you look for people who are trying to connect to things. 45:58.45 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Chair. Yeah Mark. Ah. 45:59.28 Hersh Um, oh that's a good that's a good one. 46:01.57 bizzyweb Yeah, yeah, so um, what tell us about ah truth tastes funny. 46:09.86 Hersh So truth tastes funny about a year ago I was I was um, writing a you know what happens when things get slow business wise. Although I've now. Gotten over this habit because I find that it's simply not a very lucrative habit but I had a habit where um, when things would get slow professionally I would turn my attention to something creative and be like well screw this I'm going to do this and I'll make money out of it. Like that's what I would tell myself I'm going to make money out of it I'm going to put on a show or like it like I'm in an our gang. You know, episode or something I'm going to put on a show and fill the barn and so so about a year ago I was in the midst of developing a. A stage show called truth tastes funny and it was part. It was similar to like the Alex Borstein special it was part stand up and part cabaret or or or a piano bar and I have a really good friend who's a very established. Ah. Music producer and he loved the idea and he's based in New York and so that was going to be like my my focus you know I was going to keep doing work and keep hustling business but it. But if it was not going to take up all my time I was going to do you know and there's no real like how much money can that make. 47:37.31 Hersh Really and what are the odds that let's say you even had a hit piano bar show in New York city so so what I mean how long is so you know but I started doing it at the same time I got a I got approached by a gentleman named Kyle Sullivan from pantheon fm. Which is ah podcasting podcasters network and he he said you know I would be looking at some of your stuff and love your blend of comedy and branding and I didn't at the time yes brand was not on my mind. And I had done it before I'd already had the logo I had created it but it was not top of mind and I said oh well I'm doing this show truth takes funny I could do a podcast version of it and it would be more like surviving and thriving in a chaotic world because you know as much as we don't like to. Take our medicine sometimes and as funny as the truth may taste. You know we have to accept it or we can't deal with it and um and comedy makes it go down a little easier and so if we blend really kind of tough human stories with a little bit of comedy. 48:42.93 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 48:49.95 Hersh A little my kind of way. Maybe it could work and I and and I and I you know I use their guidance Kyle and and and Josh tap the founder of that group were starting this collection of kind of. 48:50.13 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb O. 49:07.14 Hersh Newbie Podcasters they were used to working with with big companies and doing having a done for you service where they where they did everything top to bottom here. They kind of coached you and showed pointed you toward the tools and you had to do all the legwork yourself. So that became my obsession. And again, no Monetization Avenue there because because of the subject I chose like ah you know, maybe mental health and you know wellness and personal development but that you know that wasn't my business I didn't have a history in there. 49:41.98 Hersh So I didn't know I was going to turn that into any money but I thought all right? Well, it's I'll do that though. It's probably going to even if it doesn't make any money. It'll make more money than the than the stage show. So I said all right? Let's do it and I did it and this show grew and it honestly took off and I had an audience and I had ah people. Writing reviews and I had ah people coming back and listening every week and ah and then in the midst of that I The yes brand thing clicked and I'm like oh I should do a show that actually does reflect what I do for a living and so that kind of. Segwayed but the interesting thing was that truth was central to both truth was central to you know the truth being tasting funny and weird and we have to eat it anyway and ah selling the truth which is the principle that I that I build my. And all of my branding work on which is you can't get away from the truth of who you are and the truth of what your brand is like we've talked about you know you might as well embrace it and put it put the best face on it. You possibly can and figure out how to sell this reality and so. I Think the the genuine Heartfelt heart centered part of truth days. Funny really created a nice bed from which to deliver brand truths because there was credibility there this reaction that I had had to truth taste funny was was. 51:17.31 Hersh So natural and so organic that I felt ok that that's a flip side to my more branded self so I don't come off like a BS artist you know I don't come off like I'm like I'm a snasy brand guy all they have to do is listen at truth tastes funny and they know who I am. 51:28.98 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ra one. 51:37.21 Hersh And I thought oh that's that's interesting. 51:38.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb That's that's interesting. 51:39.38 bizzyweb Also quick shameless plug ah selling the truth comes out fall 2023 via leadership books. 51:45.34 Hersh Thank you? Yeah I'm super excited about that. That's my first book. 51:50.49 bizzyweb I One of the things that I I think is really frustrating for me generally when I I think comedy is so important right now because I think it's fair to say half the world is generally mad at the other half and it doesn't matter which side you put on which it's It's just true. 51:52.14 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Congrats That's amazing. 52:09.98 bizzyweb So being funny and allowing yourself the grace to laugh a little just becomes increase. It is so therapeutic yet. There are so many comedians like Jerry Seinfeld or complain that it's harder than ever to be funny. 52:26.68 Hersh Um, oh yeah, Ah, yeah yeah I embrace the challenge but I think it's um, it is hard. It is hard. It. 52:28.18 bizzyweb Do you find that to be true. 52:36.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb It is home. 52:40.60 Hersh Yeah I you know I don't know why that is I mean I and I have heard jerry talk about that. You know that you know Chris Rock as well. They they don't want to do colleges anymore because you know everything. Everything's so polarized they can't just walk in and be like you know you can't you can't just have. 52:43.52 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Relief of. 52:49.58 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, many. 52:59.82 Hersh Come in and do charm. Both sides I think that's what that's what you know people used to be able to do charm Both sides with a little humor and a little irony and a little self-deprecation and ah you know include yourself among the fallible. 53:05.50 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You. 53:19.29 Hersh And everybody will get on board with it if you have the right attitude. Ah, and if you don't get the joke if you're not in on the joke and you don't and you don't can't laugh at yourself then you know too bad for you then you look like a square you look like a loser but that's not. 53:20.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I. 53:33.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? or. 53:36.91 Hersh That doesn't work anymore right? Trig me that's like it doesn't so it's so it is harder I Do think that getting to somebody's funny bone is like if you can do it I mean I guess that some people you can't get there. 53:52.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, I mean I guess that um. 53:56.71 Hersh And that's okay I was going to say when like you when you mentioned that everybody's mad at everybody else. My grandmother's voice popped up inside my head and I was like you mad at yourself. That's who you're mad at you know you're not mad at me Don what did I do? what do I do see you give you you man of you yourself. 54:07.48 bizzyweb It's just that. 54:08.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, if. 54:15.38 Hersh Go figure out what you're angry yourself about fix it and then come back I don't care doesn't matter. It doesn't make a difference to me, you know and that's that's kind of my my attitude ah about people being angry at my point of view. 54:30.93 bizzyweb I heard I jordan klepper had a really good explanation recently where he said that and because he was talking about meeting with a Trump person and he kind of baited them into saying you know. 54:33.50 Hersh You know. 54:46.77 bizzyweb You know? Well what if he did this and that yeah, well then that would be terrible and he said okay well you did that he showed a term and the person said I don't care and that was that was it and so the realization that Jordan shared was that it when. 54:56.33 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Thing. 54:56.85 Hersh Ah, yeah. 55:03.56 bizzyweb You stop having individual beliefs and they're tied into your identity then there is no laughing at it because it's what you think it's not a position you hold It's who you are fundamentally and then. 55:09.31 Hersh Um, yeah. 55:10.96 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Prison. 55:20.18 bizzyweb You can't you can't ever make fun of who people are fundamentally because then then it's just then you're just off to the races of on the ah offensive meter. 55:28.68 Hersh Yeah, it's it's true I mean there's this this kind of indoctrination and and and you know ah cult mentality of it doesn't matter what. 55:39.18 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 55:42.52 Hersh You know what? and forget about like having a different belief from someone else. It doesn't matter what I believed before like I might have believed in in you know everybody has it. It is entitled to an opinion before but now I I don't because I believe in. 55:47.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 55:48.16 bizzyweb Right. 55:56.16 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb So fair. 56:01.97 Hersh X with no principles. No views. Really no hard and fast kind of even rules of of engagement I Just believe in X and that's what and and that's why it's so easy to kind of catch them in. 56:09.36 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Leave an X right. 56:13.89 bizzyweb Right. 56:21.77 Hersh Foolish situations but that but you know the but the problem is even the even the irony of the situation. Even the the the hypocrisy of the very statement doesn't matter because Hypocrisy doesn't matter another nothing matters and. 56:37.34 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? Um, if I'm on the right side of history and nothing else matters because it just means I'm right? Yeah oh everybody. 56:39.80 bizzyweb Right. 56:41.66 Hersh You know so. 56:45.56 bizzyweb Yeah, and that's not just even right? Wingers you know a Jamila came out after the met gallery recently and said and pointed out how honoring Karl Lagerfeld that man who notoriously fat shamed women for 50 years was perhaps counterproductive. 56:47.87 Hersh Um, right. 57:05.15 bizzyweb So and that's why people don't don't believe liberals because they say oh yeah, no, you have to accept everybody but then hey let's let's celebrate this man who hated anybody over a size two it to me. It's just it's never been more important to be funny and also to. 57:17.16 Hersh Um, yeah. 57:24.93 bizzyweb Allow people the opportunity to laugh. 57:28.51 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, yeah of the hours. 57:29.92 Hersh Um, yeah, but laughing at ourselves is the it like if you and I and I've known practitioners of Comedy. And Filmmakers comedy filmmakers who have no sense of humor really about themselves and it's it's It's a strange thing when you meet them and most of their audience doesn't even have any idea and you know, but it is a weird thing like to separate that separate that self seriousness. That whole idea of you know because if you can if some if you can get somebody to laugh at themselves. You know you've you've really got a shot but it is increasingly difficult. Because and I and I default to that sometimes I'm like oh you know that's ridiculous I'm not even going to give that any credibility that point of view I'm going to just laugh that completely out of the room but then the other person with that point of view doesn't laugh at All. Don't you see how ridiculous that is. 58:28.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 58:34.10 bizzyweb No, no that or they they wait three days later and then call and on and write or write a complaint or fill out a you ah a yelp review or something like that and you know we're we're so where we have this culture of. 58:34.45 Hersh No, um, yeah. 58:34.89 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Were there. 58:52.76 bizzyweb Rushing a judgment right now that allowing for a good chuckle is just is is so crucial that yet so hard at the same time. 58:54.34 Hersh Um, yeah. 59:00.41 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Consideration. 59:00.66 Hersh Well and you look at it's interesting to look at you know Jon Stewart for example and and Stephen Colbert and all yeah you if you if we chart what's happened there. Jon Stewart became 1 of the most serious ah ah figures in the on the landscape by his own choice. He's not really gotten into politics at this point per se but but he. 59:21.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah, um. 59:35.92 Hersh He went from satire to to just total I mean he still has a great sense of humor but he but just total seriousness about the subject because he recognized there is no ah humor on the other side. So there's not you can't. 59:41.21 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I mean. 59:55.75 Hersh You know you can't engage in that way if there's no ability to laugh at it laugh at yourself. You know he would be willing to laugh at himself if everybody else could laugh at themselves. But if but absent of that so hard and that happened with Jimmy Kimmel too Jimmy Kimmel's 59:56.12 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Render. 01:00:10.69 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 01:00:14.20 Hersh You know, ah Monologues became started becoming very serious because it was very serious and and the other side couldn't laugh at themselves. So it isn't it got so serious that you couldn't be funny. It's that the the sense of of ah of. Fallibility was missing from one side so there was no, they don't take no they. It's not funny. You know? yeah or they can so they can I know people who. 01:00:33.89 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um. 01:00:37.58 bizzyweb Yeah, because it's me, you're making fun of me. Not you know people who think like well. 01:00:48.97 Hersh Have such a good sense of humor that you can show them satire and they do think it's funny but only because they don't realize it's about them so they think it's about somebody else that that but whoever it is at the jokes on they get they think it's funny. But if they realize that that this is a ah. 01:00:55.67 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, yeah mean. 01:00:58.15 bizzyweb Um, ah. 01:01:08.30 Hersh You know about them then that then that they'll lose the they'll they'll lose it. 01:01:10.24 bizzyweb I Took my dad once to the christopher guest movie about folk folk music and he's a yeah, he's a ridiculous folk music junkie and he walked out of that just to toe tap and it was like that was great. Let's go buy the album like if. 01:01:18.15 Hersh Um, ah mighty wind mighty wind. 01:01:25.53 Hersh Right? He didn't hear yeah or like ghost take. 01:01:28.67 bizzyweb He didn't get that it wasn't It was funny. 01:01:35.26 Hersh Takes take a ah dog a dog person to best in show and they'll you know? Ah, ah someone who does those shows and they'll just think it's about them but they don't get the joke. You know. 01:01:37.15 bizzyweb Mike yeah. 01:01:42.17 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, right right? wow. 01:01:42.84 bizzyweb Right? Yeah, we are super over on time. So so much and you I We could probably go another hour or two. So can we have you back on the pod when your book comes out. 01:01:51.67 Hersh Ah, yeah, this has been great. 01:01:51.84 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, this has been delightful. 01:01:59.75 Hersh Um, oh I would love it. Thank you Trickby I would love to come back. 01:02:01.61 bizzyweb Excellent, excellent. And if people are looking to find you online at yes at the yes Brand podcast see I got it right? I I am capable of learning where where can people find you. 01:02:10.70 Hersh You you are they can go to yes brand method.com and there's contact info there too so they can they can always find me there. 01:02:23.29 bizzyweb And Gerard Rouge on Youtube and. 01:02:26.89 Hersh Yes, I would like more people to watch that I think it's a ah, wonderful tribute to Boris and and just so much fun to do and I I mean can imagine like shooting like doing that like. 01:02:28.39 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Love it. 01:02:45.24 Hersh You would never have the time that it takes to be 1 a maybe the only person on some days. The only person shooting setting up performing getting in costume getting out of and this like on a weekday this is on a day when we would have been. 01:02:58.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Are a. 01:02:59.82 bizzyweb Yeah, yeah. 01:03:03.95 Hersh You know, working doing a job going to an office going to a meeting getting something ready to deliver to a client and just not being busy enough to do that and literally having the time to be running around the house with a tripod and my phone and. Trying to measure the the height of the chair so that when I sit in the other chair. The those. The thing will cut the the reverse shots will cut together. Um, so it's both a time capsule piece Because. Ah, you, you would not be likely to do it again and a wonderful tribute to my late friend. 01:03:44.67 bizzyweb Thank you Urssh Do you want to end us so with a good joke. 01:03:46.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb It's amazing. 01:03:50.94 Hersh With a good joke. Oh that's the don't put it. Don't put a comedian on the on the spot with a good joke I'm trying you're lucky if I if I could think of a lousy joke which I would hope like I could think of um. 01:03:54.87 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Can you break. 01:04:00.35 bizzyweb All right? Well let me say them I don't Dave doesn't know this about me. But I recently took a second job. Yeah I've been I've been working at ah, a manufacturing plant that um. 01:04:07.35 Hersh Um, yeah. 01:04:15.36 bizzyweb Makes little and makes plastic draculas which is nice because it helps me unwind. It's you know it's repetitive motion. It's great. But I'm a little worried about the staffing. There's only 2 of us who work there so I have to make every second count.