00:01.64 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Well trig v it's been a while since we've talked about ai and I know that we had a her chat Gpt on as a special valued guest and um, we actually have a first for our show I think we have a. Repeat guest here with us to help talk about ai pete stay hey pete no way really? Okay, well perfect right? right. 00:19.75 bizzyweb I I think I think he's the second repeat guest but he's he's number he's he's number 1 in our hearts we got to. We got to meet the the guy from tag team. The 90 s hip hop band. So we'd add a whole series on him. So. 00:21.34 Pete Steege Um, and who are. 00:27.40 Pete Steege I'm the repeat repeat guest then. 00:33.72 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh yeah, there we go there. We go so this is this is perfect but Pete and I were were chatting the other day because we work together and refer a lot of business to each other and. 00:34.85 Pete Steege Nice. What great. 00:47.72 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb 1 of the things that came up is you know the hot button topic on everybody's brains especially in marketing and that is Ai and just the rapid development and change that's happening inside of artificial intelligence algorithms and all of the. Hot happen in things like gemini and Gpt and all of that stuff so we thought it'd be really fun to kind of just chat about it live on air and have pete bring in his more reasons I think. Outlook then I've got because I'm I'm kind of rah rah hey let's go and Pete's like well wait this is going to mess things up a little bit for a while and we need to come come up with plans around that. So I think that's direction are going. 01:34.74 bizzyweb I'm actually ah I'm I'm actually not going to be staying for the podcast I've actually recorded a soundboard of my voice and I'll I'll drop you guys to the link. So when you need witty banter I've recorded several dozen things that you can say ah. 01:39.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb There you go. There we go. 01:52.38 bizzyweb Um, so here, let me let me try one. That's so spicy hot dog Dave you like that that one that's a good well we'll say that one for later hey Pete how are you. 01:55.93 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, who I don't know what you pat at the top of the board. 02:03.42 Pete Steege I'm great trig. 02:04.59 bizzyweb Are you are you are You are you welcoming of our new Robot overlords or are you are you fearful of them. Skynet style. 02:13.66 Pete Steege You know I think like most thoughtful humans I go back and forth a little bit on that. Um I am just taken aback when I when I see app New applications of it which happens so frequently. And they they do something that I had had in the category of well that's something that humans do and not machines do and they say oh wait a minute that sounds like that's crossing that Line. So I've had a lot of thought about Wow, what. 02:35.99 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I have. 02:47.20 Pete Steege Disruption effect of Ai and um I'd say good and bad about that and it's it's got me thinking a lot about what does um the future look like for Ai technology and ah are you know humans. 02:47.35 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 03:06.37 Pete Steege Leveraging Ai technology and does it ever go the other way where the Ai technology is leveraging humans and you know I actually have a hopeful perspective on that we can get further into it. But I I think I think we're going to stay in charge even though. 03:17.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Minute. 03:24.60 Pete Steege If you extrapolate some of the trends we're seeing this year it's hard to quantify that because ah there are those skynett kind of comparison you see things. But so that's my perspective I love to share more about it. Good. 03:30.72 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 03:35.38 bizzyweb Way to go pete great point that was button number 3 yeah. 03:35.41 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I Love it. 03:40.37 Pete Steege How to read about it. 03:42.53 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh I like that one Good. So I know that marketing is going to be seeing a pretty big leap and ah and a change and there's been some interesting examples already like sports illustrated got. Like hugely dinged and I kind of took down the entire um publication because they were literally recouping or just dumping all of their content through an Ai generator and making it into blog posts and republishing it. So I I'd Love. Yeah. 04:13.91 bizzyweb Which is truly a shame because there are people of a certain age who grew up understanding prose and understanding long form writing by reading um by by reading sports illustrated. 04:22.45 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A b. 04:31.38 bizzyweb I was an avid sports illustrated reader growing up and a lot of understanding. Ah I got sports illustrated was a gateway drug into larger deeper humorists for me like georgelimpton that you don't see anymore. 04:45.99 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, right? So no knowing that how how do you think a I might be breaking marketing in the near term pete. 05:00.35 Pete Steege Actually I'll give you even another recent example in the last week that to me is is even a ah simpler and smaller sign of the pushback and that was the the big to do about Kate Middleton's doctored photograph ten years ago 05:01.15 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah. 05:13.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 05:18.15 Pete Steege I mean people doing that forever but that to me point the the outrage about her photoshopping a photo I mean it's ah it's a global thing and to me that that's pointing to this that the increasing sensitivity Of. Ah, us not knowing what's real anymore and so I think that's at the core of what's going on and you know you so you asked about how I see Ai breaking marketing in the future If if if I can I'd like to walk you through what I see is kind of 3. 05:37.71 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 05:55.33 Pete Steege Likely stages of Ai as it relates to marketing and this is I'm not a futurist. Ah, but I I see I have actually in my career I've I've been a technology business marketer for my for 30 years 05:57.46 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah, if we. 06:11.69 Pete Steege And I was reflecting back on how many different technology transitions I've worked through I've been in businesses that had to grapple with those changes from semiconductor ah technology trend huge transitions in the 80 s where the the line width of the chips were. Going below visible light and all ah had huge disruption inside these factories to going from tape drives to disk drives for data centers to going from spinning disk drives to. 06:30.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb In here. 06:45.80 Pete Steege Solid state drives from going to Dvds to streaming video I've I've worked in businesses that had to deal with all of those existential changes to their business I would argue that ai stands above all of those in terms of disruption. 06:55.91 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 07:05.13 Pete Steege We haven't seen how yet all of the ways. But there's some familiar things to me and I just want to walk you through what I see ah about it and marketing to me marketing is all about um relationships and and meaning between people right? It's communicating and connecting right? That's what marketing is about. 07:11.35 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, let's run. 07:24.53 Pete Steege So those to me I like to look at what's coming with Ai with that lens. So ah when I my kids were growing up. There were big Pixar fans. We were big Pixar frame fans and so let's talk about the the incredibles movie. So maybe some. 07:38.14 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb No. 07:42.26 Pete Steege Younger people might not remember that but in that movie. Um I like to call the first phase of Ai where we are today. The supers phase so that's where a few of us have the superpower of these tools and there's. 07:49.82 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 07:49.91 bizzyweb Kind. 07:59.64 Pete Steege We're seeing new applications of Ai every day and like oh my gosh I can't believe they can do that there was one company even that announced the other day that they ah replaced 700 customer service phone agents with an ai bot. Um. 08:12.48 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. Okay. 08:17.96 Pete Steege That's ah, that's a super. You know that's 1 person doing something that seems super human and I think we're in the face now where they're still spotty enough that it's like oh my gosh that's can that happen right? and um, a couple of things about that right now I think Ai. 08:20.68 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Hey. 08:36.71 Pete Steege Ah, is not. It's still pretty early days on what it can do so trig you were joking about you know the the soundbites ah Ai we we can still mostly tell the difference between ai and and real things like the sports illustrated stuff. 08:54.11 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 08:56.52 Pete Steege Um, and there's pushback about that and it's it's it's an issue of um, the the mistake marketers are making right now is what sports illustrated did right? So I guess the lesson to me for. Marketers or business people on the phone on the on the podcast is at this point you you absolutely have to um, avoid putting out Ai accented content and and material so things that you can tell. 09:28.31 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You know. 09:32.86 Pete Steege Whether or not you literally can tell you can you know quantitatively tell as humans we can qualitatively tell today in most cases at some point right? So you need to use Ai in the background and not use it in the in the foreground in your marketing. So that means. 09:40.21 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? me. 09:49.13 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Are. 09:52.17 Pete Steege Huge productivity advantages Dave I um know you've talked about that many times all the different ways that people today can really improve what they're doing but you have to be you have to treat Ai as your employee and you have to be the editor and the manager and the director and you can't let. 10:07.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 10:12.80 Pete Steege A I be the the artist right? They're the they're the back back office. 10:15.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb For sure Pete would you agree with this I just read something and I I'm blanking on where where I got it from but a this this um community so are purported that. What you should do with Ai generated content is follow a 108010 rule and so ten percent of your time or content is generating the prompt to come up with you know, a fantastic piece of content. You are a marketer and you're an expert and blah blah blah and you're looking to sell this thing and here are the keywords that you need to ingest all that's up 80% is letting the chatbot do its job and then 10% is cleaning it up. 10:54.85 Pete Steege Um. 11:07.64 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I think that's probably a little heavy on the ai at this point and I think that's the that's that kind of thinking is in my opinion. What's leading to the sloppy easy to spot Ai stuff. So what? What do you think a good like if we had to. Pared all the way down to you know percentages what? what should we be leaning on for Ai like is it 30% upfront research 20% prompts and what I don't I don't even know. 11:38.85 Pete Steege Yeah, that's my answer I think we can't I can't say that we we know yet, It's so cutting edge. It's so changing every week and so. 11:44.76 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 11:53.78 Pete Steege Even if we said some with some accuracy if we knew some accuracy. Okay, it's you know, Twenty Sixty Twenty you'd have to ask me again in two weeks or in two months because the world is changing so fast I like the model of rather than I don't think we're ready to. 12:01.86 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah, you. 12:13.44 Pete Steege To lock it in in that way yet I think the important thing is the investment. Maybe the better ah way to look at it is how much time is your organization investing in and exercising in bringing these tools into their their work. 12:14.00 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Sure sure. 12:26.94 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Sure yeah. 12:29.45 Pete Steege Rather than think about how much of your production time is spent is saved by Ai think of how much of your learning time is in being invested in prompting and understanding new tools and you know integrating different. Um. 12:33.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb He. 12:48.72 Pete Steege Automation chains and things. So it's it's just it's a learning curve opportunity I think. 12:50.51 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? Okay, yeah, and I I agree 100% because like prompts engineering the the tools themselves are learning based on what these engineering engineered prompts are doing so all of the cliffs notes of. You know how to generate a prompt are already kind of null and void because you don't have to tell ah chat Gpt or gemini who they are anymore. You can just tell it look at this website and build me a persona and it understands. So. 13:14.40 Pete Steege So yes. 13:20.25 Pete Steege Um, right. 13:25.34 Pete Steege Right. 13:29.45 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I Think all of those you know having having us set or a very ah very keen eye for reality and making sure that the human or the humanity of your content is still there. 13:46.75 Pete Steege Totally That's that's my message for today if I had to summarize my advice to anybody is own your humanity and and and maintain your and by you I mean your business and your humanity and I would I would use words like authenticity. 13:46.91 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Is probably the biggest watchword for us. Yeah. 13:54.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah. 13:59.26 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Great. Nice. Yep I like it. 14:06.35 Pete Steege And um, you know it's really about my thing for marketing has been for for years that marketing's power is in meaning right? And that's what we talked about last time and you know just what that just to summarize that what that means is businesses and. 14:13.62 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Me. Can I want. 14:24.17 Pete Steege People prospects whoever they are don't have time for things that don't have a reason for them so you need to create a purpose for their they're taking the time to get to know you or take a risk on you or whatever the things you need to happen to have a new customer. 14:41.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 14:43.44 Pete Steege And the way that happens is if you have something meaningful to talk about and if you are not being authentic. Authenticity is part of that meaning if you are not being authentic and you're you're being sports illustrated um or you're being. 14:58.27 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb He. 15:02.91 Pete Steege Over overly sensitive area area. Ah, Kate Middleton you know it's those things are saying to people I'm going to let this machine talk to you not me right? and that real you can feel the energy that negates that that engagement. 15:04.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb It. 15:13.33 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 15:22.17 Pete Steege That is what marketing is all about so marketers more than anybody the closer you get to the customer relationship the less you can let I a I do the work for you. Especially today. 15:34.19 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 15:37.98 bizzyweb There's a the converse of that though is that there is a there. There is also a value in removing the human element of it. So for instance, 1 Ah I know that um. 15:55.30 bizzyweb The the actor James Earl Jones has entered into a agreement with the star wars people and he he did a bunch of recordings for Ai and. 16:01.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh yeah. 16:11.44 bizzyweb Ah, now his voice will be licensed so from now until the end of time James Earl Jones will always be the voice of Darth Vader so yeah 16:21.57 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Luke I am your great. Great great! Great! Great! Great grandfather. Yeah. 16:21.66 Pete Steege So yes, ah so I love that trick I'd like to take that point and go into what I see as the next phase of Ai what's coming next and that is back to the incredibles example. 16:29.89 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah. 16:38.28 Pete Steege That's what I call the syndrome phase one of the quotes from the movie. Syndrome said he was the Evil Genius in them in the movie right? And what he said was he had He had this this tool. He's that gave everybody super Powers superhero powers and he said everybody will be super. 16:46.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, if. 16:58.60 Pete Steege And when everybody is special nobody will be so that's what I see is coming and if you take the James ear Joan story joan story and and go forward with that I think we're what's going to happen next. 17:00.35 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 17:15.90 Pete Steege First of all more critic more specifically to marketers I think one of the next thing that's next things that's coming is a change in the in the balance of marketing and what what I mean by that is there's gonna be a content flood. So think of. All the marketers in the world. Ah having the choice that sports illustrated did and even more because we're just getting started so they'll be ah content will be essentially unlimited. It will be ah free. 17:43.00 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 17:51.90 Pete Steege Kind of like what and I'll use the analogy very small version of what's going. What's coming of email automation when it became essentially free to send additional emails to additional people. We all know what that has done to our inboxes and our lives right? take that. 18:06.32 bizzyweb Um, yeah. 18:11.43 Pete Steege And apply it to every single piece of content you consume in your life Every every movies podcasts articles, books videos you name it. Everything we're not there. It's going to take a while but that's it You know it's coming. 18:16.45 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 18:28.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb There. 18:31.49 Pete Steege Not that long a time that all of those things will be able to be created um by anybody with you know, chat tpt or whatever the tool is Sora and um, what does that mean did we as consumers as prospects. 18:40.70 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb My. 18:50.76 Pete Steege Somehow become infinitely more capable ah have ah infinitely higher capacity of absorbing new content. No so there's this huge um problem because as a marketer we want to. 18:56.71 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Hey. 19:08.23 Pete Steege Make connections. We want to stand out. We want to reach people have them reach us. How do you do that when everything is available infinitely available to everybody and there's this all of this stuff So that's what I mean by um, marketing is breaking because that's the model that we've. 19:19.26 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Who. 19:27.35 Pete Steege Been working off of for a long time and that model's not going to work anymore. There's a lot of things. Yeah, so a couple out of things about that. Um I think there's going to be an abstraction arms race. So one solution to that problem is Ai is going to give us tools. 19:27.76 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 19:46.13 Pete Steege And it already has tools that allows ah it to summarize ah of you know content and give me give it to me in 10 bullets all that kind of thing same with video same with everything else. So picture. Ah, actually there was this great cartoon and I didn't save it I should should have it was like yeah you know. 19:50.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And here. 20:05.37 Pete Steege New yorker cartoon is something and it was 2 split screens and the 1 screen it was somebody sitting in a computer talking to somebody saying hey look what I can do Ai just took this this little message and made it into a 3 chapters and then the next panel shows somebody else saying. 20:18.48 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 20:23.86 Pete Steege Hey look what I did Ai just took these 3 chapters and put it into 2 paragraphs and if you think of the note takers in meetings. Um, you know picture a meeting where ah none of the humans show up and it's just bots talking to each other I mean that abstraction arms race. 20:29.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah, yeah. 20:43.14 bizzyweb I've actually had that I've actually had that happen to me. Um I teach a class for several hundred people at a time at Hubspot and 1 of the things that I do as part of the class is I break people into smaller groups and so one guy got. 20:43.27 Pete Steege Is. 21:00.70 bizzyweb Of like 4 or 5 people so they're like eighty five ninety different groups. 1 guy got put into a room with four bots and then I I mean I was to I was pinging him introduce yourself. Make sure that you guys share your Linkedin profile. 21:07.84 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um I Love it. 21:10.40 Pete Steege Ah, that's great. 21:19.10 Pete Steege That is a great story and it's that's it. It's coming right? You can all see that is our future and then 1 more thing in this in this image of the syndrome world is um, copies of copies. It's related to what I just said. 21:19.80 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah. 21:21.57 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Then. 21:31.95 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb M. 21:36.91 Pete Steege But now picture all these large language models that are creating more content than we've ever created before as humans and Ai works by looking at the content on the web. So now Ai is learning from what Ai created and then it's learning from that and it's there's this new derivative reality. So the abstraction isn't just in summarizing and expanding that that. Abstraction is in what's real anymore. And yeah, you know and I suspect there'll be some hopefully there'll be some learning from that and we'll learn how to teach Ai to you know treat those kinds of content. You know, derivative content different than original content. But when the derivative content is 10 x or a hundred x or a thousand x the original content the model this no longer works and I don't know what that future looks like but it's not going to be this this reality. 22:37.30 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh. 22:47.68 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh right. 22:49.67 bizzyweb I Think that the it's a good place for us to take a break and once we come back from the break I Want to talk about the extension of of that break which is um, the the the butterfly effect as it relates to um, a. 22:58.91 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um. 23:05.67 bizzyweb Ah, Ed Sheeran and intellectual property. So stick with us. We'll be right back. So Ed Sheeran got sued and he was accused of copywriting his song the shape of you. 23:23.44 bizzyweb And he took it all the way to trial and then he sort of obliterated the entire idea of music copyright theft because he got on the stand with his guitar and he played I think 30 different songs using the same 4 chords. 23:37.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 23:40.42 bizzyweb Or over the course of 50 years and it was really just ah, a shocking and amazing thing to see what the what I use Ai for a lot right now and this is particularly and evocative for evocative a vacative. 23:56.38 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb E the code a bit if yeah there you go. 24:00.42 bizzyweb Is particularly important for Dave's and my day job because as we build websites for people. One of the things we have to do is source photography and so one of the neat new Ai shiny bells and whistles is we can um, create photos. 24:08.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 24:19.38 bizzyweb So for instance I have an Ai robot that comes to every single one of my meetings that takes care that takes notes from me and I named it my robot butler and then I asked the company who provides the service if they could have a picture on there of instead of my smiling face a different picture. They said sure. 24:22.26 Pete Steege Oh. 24:37.60 bizzyweb So I went on ai and made a picture of a robot butler so that being said and and now they're changing it so that they can do that for my little robot butler which I think is shocking and funny and awesome at the same time. My question is this there is an entire underpinning of creative work that is out there. Ah, through open source photos stock photos images that Ai is ostensibly pulling from them how many of those people are going to start losing out. Um, how is that industry. Do you think is going to be effective and. How the Ed Sheeran effect of it all how how much can you really parse a picture of a daisy versus a picture of a daisy. 25:23.80 Pete Steege Um, right I think your that area is it's going to be reinvented. It has to be in the that's a um, that's not Ai breaking marketing that's Ai breaking um business model right. 25:37.31 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, reality. Yeah. 25:40.22 bizzyweb It's murdering an industry. 25:42.75 Pete Steege And it's It's not just the specific category of creators. You've talked about right? It's writers. It's um, it's a lot of different things and what so what I see take take the the the future view what I see that the. 25:51.80 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 26:01.29 Pete Steege Next chapter after the syndrome effects chapter being is what I'll call the Pixar phase Pixar is a to me I'm just such a a fan of Pixar um, and you think about in my opinion you think about their success back in the day. Maybe not so much anymore. But when they got started. It wasn't their cutting edge technology that made them special. It was their storytelling. Absolute incredible storytellers I think the future after this when when not. 26:27.22 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 26:38.41 Pete Steege All everything's leveled out. Um where we'll be is. We'll have unlimited content like I said no one will be able to tell what's real and what's not real. 26:52.45 Pete Steege Today we can and in it from the as we said from a real practical standpoint. You have to be really careful. You know you risk the stock footage effect or you know the clip art effect is what's happening now people looka alert like you do you know? yeah right? and I believe that's going to go away on the path. It's going and just like I'd say. 26:57.65 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb So 7 fingers on a hand. Yeah, all that. 27:12.35 Pete Steege Cgi over the last thirty years it's not still not perfect, but it's got the point where I no longer can right away say oh yeah, well, that's clearly cgi in a movie right? That's where we're gonna end up with all that content I talked about this conversation you were joking earlier trig. But. I will you you could be your bot. Your butler will be just like as real as you are now. 27:34.73 bizzyweb My but my robot Butler is considerably more consistently funny than I am. 27:36.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, but there's. 27:39.74 Pete Steege Well I'd say and to to be serious about that Your Robot Butler will be exactly as funny as you are right? It will become really really close to you So in that world We as consumers and as human beings. 27:40.17 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Later. 27:58.82 Pete Steege Won't be able to know if if if I'm interacting with somebody and I'm not at least as far as I know if I'm face to face I'll still know for now I can't see a case. That's not the case. But other than that if there's a wire between us of some kind. 28:05.61 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb See here. 28:16.24 Pete Steege I don't think we'll we'll be able to tell right? And what does that mean to the world and then finally um, this is back to your point about the the businesses going industries going away and my example about the 700 customer support people. Um. Intelligence will be free and by that I mean all of I like um I will have an Ai team employees a company thousands of employees right? and they will do work for me and. So what does that do to our our model right? So I can't really can't fathom what all that means I think nobody can but what it does tell me about marketing. Let's just dial it back I think the opportunity for businesses with their marketing that they need to start thinking about now. 28:54.49 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. Right. 29:11.89 Pete Steege And if they do they will have an advantage is this Pixar world and at at the end of the day what it comes down to is. It's back to that meaning thing you have to find your way to communicate your authenticity. Through this artificial world and I don't know what that is yet. It's probably something new. Um, one thing it is that we know today is there will be a high I believe there will be a higher value on face-to-face meetings than there has been to be a reversion back to you. You can't scale that. 29:33.64 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Fifth. 29:48.80 Pete Steege And you'll never be able to but that it will be an opportunity for marketers to find a way. How do I leverage in-person meetings and events in in a different way because that is that 1 place where as a consumer as a business person I know that's a real human and I could have. That authenticity right? Unauugmented um, so that's for sure something that you can do. But I think the this is back to the the original thing invest in Ai now be be fluent understand what's coming get to so get to know what it can do what it can't do. 30:18.95 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 30:26.12 Pete Steege What it's just learned to do how you know where its strengths are where its weaknesses are how people react to it because that ah that knowledge that experience um, is going to be how you will find your your way to be human. 30:44.39 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Okay. 30:44.47 Pete Steege In this in this weird world. 30:45.22 bizzyweb Peter are are you familiar with the history of Pixar as a company because this is set you mentioned Pixar twice and talked about evocative storytelling which I think is great but you know you know the the the story of it. So um, it's it's. 30:55.58 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, a. 30:57.18 Pete Steege I Know something about it tell me what you mean. 31:05.11 bizzyweb It's it's a very apt pull on your part to to bring it into the conversation because for the majority of the 90 s the movies were accidental. Um that that Pixar was actually a software company that was developed to. I mean probably gonna get this wrong but in my head it was something to compete with Cad Drawings and it was an easier and quicker way to make cad drawings and they made animated things to show the technology. It wasn't the use of the technology and so then they accidentally won the Oscar. 31:26.60 Pete Steege Got it. 31:26.83 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 31:34.61 Pete Steege Interesting. 31:41.30 bizzyweb And so Steve Jobs was actually one of the original investors in that and he hated the movies and he thought the movies were stupid because he thought the the technologies were the right way but all of a sudden then they kept winning awards and putting out movies and all of a sudden the movie studio became bigger than anything else and it was. 31:43.90 Pete Steege Right. 31:46.30 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Investors have. 32:00.51 bizzyweb Inevitable that it was going to sort of take over. So. 32:05.50 Pete Steege I'm glad you shared that perspective because it totally makes the point doesn't it. 32:08.40 bizzyweb That Well, there's an accidental The the I think that the the lesson to be learned. There is what you intend to technology for isn't necessarily what it's best for. 32:18.87 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 32:20.65 Pete Steege It's that's for sure a message. The other thing I heard trig was at the end of the day meaning Trump's technology right? That's it Pixar started with technology and the meaning. 32:28.78 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 32:36.15 bizzyweb Yeah. 32:36.35 Pete Steege Grew Beyond it. 32:37.99 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb It's funny. You mention that because I did one of 1 of my favorite books and one that I actually had my son read um as a summer extra credit book report and I'm not actually that nerdy for for the for the kid's education. But. Yeah, he was bored and I was like okay I'll give you fifty bucks per book if you if you do these because you yeah, well you know it' it was a beefy book. Yeah yeah, right? But ah ed catmull who was the Ceo of Pixar um create or had a book ten years ago called creativity inc and. 32:54.59 Pete Steege Nice. 32:55.64 bizzyweb Fifty bucks I'll write you get me books I'll read for I'll read for 40 33:10.41 Pete Steege In price I haven't read it but I want to. 33:12.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh my goodness. It's it's a super easy and and engaging read. But what he got into was the birth of how Pixar became a story oriented organization versus a tech organization and so I think that's really important to think about. 33:26.90 Pete Steege With me ice. 33:32.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb As we've talked about authenticity. We've talked about you know, making sure that you're clear. We've talked about kind of. We said it in a different way but the photocopy effects and you know for the younger folks on on the call or ah listening along photocopy is this thing where you used to put paper. Um, which is a wood based product onto a machine and it would reproduce it and if you do that over and over again. It gets fuzzier and fuzzier. Um, that's one of the problems with Ai in general is that all Ai can do is look at what has been. And create its own copy of it and so we're going to see a lot more noise inside of that space and we're probably also going to see unforeseen consequences because it's going the ai the large large language models are going to make leaps that we didn't intend. 34:08.30 Pete Steege Yes. 34:27.17 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And that probably aren't authentic to what we're trying to do in marketing and so one of the key skills I think and I am just bringing this up as as a conversation point but 1 of the key skills I think is to know and to be able to hang on to the thread of the story of your company. 34:43.51 Pete Steege Oh. 34:45.82 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And that's one of the skills that we're going to need to sharpen because the noise is going to keep getting louder and so we as marketing professionals need to be able to capture that you know the winds are getting stronger. We still need to be able to sail in the right direction. 35:01.11 Pete Steege Yes, I totally agree Dave. 35:06.80 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb So for for that and I think as we've gone through the 3 phases Pete right? So from the incredible space to the syndrome phase and now into you know what do we do with it all, um, the the key for me and I think. As as we figure this out for immediate future and I'm on stage talking about this and and getting huge questions from people all the time on it. So I'm thinking about it a ton right now. Um, the the thread is what do you do now. 35:32.48 Pete Steege Mother. 35:40.58 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb To make sure that you're successful into the future and to start being just cautious wary prepared. You know we don't want to be digital preppers where we've got cans of soup in our basement but you know how how do we guard and make sure that we're using the tools without. 35:50.83 Pete Steege Um, right. 35:58.73 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Losing the soul of our marketing. 36:01.46 Pete Steege My in my two cents on that it is. It's somewhat back to basics but there are some core truths about marketing that are what no matter what fancy stuff you see around in the current decade we're living in. 36:10.88 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Are a. 36:19.51 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, here. 36:19.66 Pete Steege It It goes back to those universal truths and that is That's the the foundation that is going to um, help you to stay grounded through the storm those include things we've already talked about like you know you can say it's brand related things. What is your company's. True Story. What is your core truth and you need to you need to have it make sure you know it have it clearly defined simply defined and have that remain as your gold standard and. 36:43.29 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I. 36:54.71 Pete Steege So whatever you're creating with whatever amazing technology has to be in support of that story and I think that's that's the temptation that people are going to as you said are going to have a problem with and the the. 37:09.23 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 37:12.95 Pete Steege Lesson for them is take time regularly to reflect on how all of your messaging all of your content relates to your core story and if it doesn't then you need to clean it up. An example ah is in today's world is. It's people that aren't um, maybe don't haven't had a lot of experience with marketing if you go to their website. You'll see a lot of different fonts and different image sizes and different even voices and tones and um. 37:41.99 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Sure. Yeah, oh. 37:50.28 Pete Steege For some people that doesn't Ah, they don't understand the importance of that that comprehensive thing but the visual identity and the um the tone consistency of company is how people um, get to know you. 38:04.96 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb For me. 38:06.69 Pete Steege Because if I am a prospect for you in your business and I just in my work life happen upon a blog post or happen upon an article or happen upon your website and every time I do I'm I'm hearing or reading or seeing something a little different. I get confused and I'm too busy to make sense of that that conflict so I Just it all averages out and I don't know who you are and I'm uninterested frankly the same with this content flood even if ah even if you you know you're not. 38:29.87 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb He right. 38:45.35 Pete Steege Able to keep up with all the volume that's okay, it's better that whatever you do create and however you do create it. You just prioritize having it be tied to that that meaning that universal truth. 39:00.67 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah prince. 39:04.70 Pete Steege The other thing I'll say is I think a really good best practice right now for people is to lean into the the platforms you're using and the ai that's getting in that they're investing in their tools for you. Um. For me hubspot comes to mind I'm ah I'm a big hubspot fan I know you guys are too. Um, but there's all you know all of the crms are doing that Microsoft office and co-pilot Google and Gemini. They're doing some of that learning work for you right? where. 39:31.28 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 39:41.90 Pete Steege Um, yes I and I hope you do go to Chad Gpt and you work on your prompts. But what's happening is that's getting aggregated for you as a consumer as ah as a user and so that's a really important place for you to tell that's a power tool for your business. So don't just. Focus on getting good at prompting focus on your your work process and your habits and your training with the tools that your business is using today because all those businesses are making those changes as we speak. 40:11.79 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah I think it's to exactly to that point Pete I think it's not getting good at prompting or using the tools. It's getting good at sharpening and adding back in the soul into the into the connection or the or the marketing or. 40:29.60 Pete Steege So yes. 40:31.17 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You know reclaiming the thread of whatever you were trying to do because with power like what Ai is doing and if you've not played with you know, just going into chat Gpt and having it you know draft you a blog post. It's impressive at first. But then. It's also really dumb. So you know I joke and I say you know it my my kids are a little older now. But it's like a chat tpt or a gemini blog post is a lot like what you would probably see if you asked your seventh grader to write a book report. 40:51.47 Pete Steege Yeah. 41:09.23 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You know it's like okay well give me ah, give me a book report on cookies and what it's going to say is you know cookies are really neat and they were invented in 121 by this company called Bob's cookies' house or whatever. And cookies are really important because cookies are round and cookies, cookies, cookies cookies good all right just filling the space with junk that counts as words. So as a marketer and again as a marketing's job is to influence opinion and action. So the only way to do that is by connecting with what your customers actually need and if you're generating a massive amount of noise. It's easy to get sucked into that and think that it's the end product but you really need to keep coming back to. The purpose of your marketing and what your company's trying to do and that's the key skill in my opinion on what Ai practitioners or Ai enabled practitioners need to be comfortable with. 42:17.48 Pete Steege Greed it goes back to don't don't lose sight of your don't lose sight of your job right? Dave that's your job is not to generate words and images your job is to as you said influence inspire and change. 42:18.55 bizzyweb That's a great point Dave. 42:19.28 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb There treat me hit the board again. 42:23.85 bizzyweb That's a great point Dave. 42:25.35 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? Um, right? yeah. 42:34.75 bizzyweb I had a I had a conversation earlier this week with somebody who wanted to put me through my paces and ask me 1 ah hundred and 12 questions about capabilities and can we do this and can we do this and can we do this and I after about 2 questions I said okay look. 42:34.82 Pete Steege Um. 42:51.41 bizzyweb You know I'll be honest with you that the answer to all your questions. There's they're gonna be yes, that's not really what you want to ask though the yeah the question is not can it it. The question is should it and when you deal with all of these tools that can do all of these wonderful things that. 43:04.10 Pete Steege Um, right? yeah. 43:08.89 bizzyweb In an ideal world should accelerate your efforts. The question is should you and what's the cost of losing that losing your authenticity and that's something that everybody needs to to try and figure out on their own I think similarly and I think we've all sort of experienced this and this is. 43:13.30 Pete Steege Yeah. 43:28.63 bizzyweb When we're recording this was this is the day after the department of justice sued Apple but traditionally what you see when you see non-apple phones come out is the company will tell say we do this one thing better than the Apple phone so shouldn't you should buy our phone. 43:37.88 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 43:47.17 bizzyweb Like wow isn't the converse of that that the Apple phone does like 50 things better than you do, but you just do that 1 thing better. So just because it can I think marketing on the whole has a shiny tool syndrome and I think Dave and I are. They hair he guilty if that there to anybody else Dave and I are offt often. The people who are like a look at this and and and the people who work with us are likeh. Go back to go back to your desk now. 44:05.35 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb He. 44:14.98 Pete Steege I work with Ceos that don't have a marketing leader and the the core problem from almost every one of them is that there are thousands of choices they have for marketing in the marketing world. 44:19.40 bizzyweb Yeah. 44:29.35 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 44:33.60 Pete Steege How the heck can they decide the right thing to do and that's really what? Ah, my business is about is that curating and choosing the right things the right one out of 1000 um to to help their business right? and trick you totally right? that's. But we're talking about here with ai. It's it's an abundance problem right? It's you can do anything you want and that's a problem. 44:56.77 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? Well, it's the same thing like you could if if you really want a nice long read just Google seo companies and you'll get several million results right. You can do the same thing by trying to generate content and put all that together. It's just just because it's easier doesn't mean it's better and just because there's more doesn't mean it's better. So I think the guide and you know ah I want to do a quick callback to your book pete to on purpose. 45:19.88 Pete Steege Right. 45:32.38 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Because I think that's a really cogent outline of what you need to know if you're going to actually connect right? As a as a company and as a business owner. 45:45.86 Pete Steege And it's been. It's been interesting for me to see that this whole Ai topic. Ah it applies to that very much right? It's a very there's there's not a change needed to say how do you? How do you look at that. 46:02.93 Pete Steege 1 I will say here's 1 practical piece of advice for for your audience out there. What you can do today is as you're creating content I'm a big believer in content despite what I said there's gonna be a lot It's still really important. 1 opportunity people have right now as we go from the supers phase to the syndrome phase. It's just starting like the seo keyword stuff is starting to change because of what's going on and it's going as this this content flood is coming an opportunity for. 46:29.82 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 46:38.00 Pete Steege For people is to create things that make it easier for their clients to consume information. So think less rather than more um think of a guide to you know, a very tight list that. 46:46.67 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb He. 46:55.19 Pete Steege Helps them from your expertise again something they can't just go ask chat Che gpt that helps them have to read less have to dig less have to sort through a flood less. That's a great topic of whatever your subject matter is. 47:04.72 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 47:13.74 Pete Steege Look for ways to make it easier for your clients to learn or absorb or a shortcut for them because they're all we all are going to be wanting help with that because. 47:22.86 bizzyweb And this is all fine and good. But the the real secret of marketing is that what you say doesn't matter. It's when the when they want to hear it and timing is everything. 47:31.62 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh yeah. 47:31.64 Pete Steege Here. Okay, yeah, and so. 47:35.94 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Absolutely. 47:38.95 bizzyweb Pete We can't thank you enough for joining us again. Where can people find you online. 47:44.67 Pete Steege Ah, great place to find me is on Linkedin this just my name easy enough and my website is b two b dash clarity dot com. 47:56.69 Pete Steege And the company's B Two B clarity and look forward to and have I have some free resources out there for ceos without a marketing leader that hope they go and look for these guys. 48:04.94 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Absolutely thank you Pete so great to see you. 48:06.40 bizzyweb Thanks, big.