00:00.00 bizzyweb I can't believe you got this guy as a guest Dave can I do the intro Dave but super excited today. We have an american treasure here today. He is an american folk singer and social activist. He was a member of the weavers in the 1950 00:03.69 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And absolutely trig me be my yeah. 00:19.63 bizzyweb He has been a prolific song writer His best known songs include where of all the flowers gone if I had a hammer and turn turn turn he was. 00:20.92 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um. 00:23.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb On. Way. 00:29.20 Pete Um, Trigby Trigger Bay I think ah awkward I There's a t in there I think you got that wrong. 00:34.93 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah, oh oh so. Mr. Mr. Olson we are interviewing a fantastic friend of ours pete a yes so p. 00:37.61 bizzyweb Stop beat. It's not that beats state. It's It's not big think right? well hold on hold on. 00:52.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yes, you you reset and I want you to take a couple of notes because Pete is an absolute brilliant friend of ours and. 00:58.24 bizzyweb Pete Staing national treasure he is the author of odd purpose. The Ceo's guide to marketing with meaning and he is the head of b two b clarity. He also is he has authored the Ceo's pocket guide to marketing without a marketing leader. 01:15.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah, see that we got that. 01:15.37 bizzyweb He is the fact why and he has yet to write a song he is in fact, not Pete Seeger well Pete St's dead as I'm reading on Wikipedia as I'm looking this at yeah I thought it was weird when you told me we had Pete Seeger but I would. 01:19.18 Pete Well, you don't know that I haven't written a song though. But but right. 01:24.83 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, well oh well, that would have been your first clue. Ah right. 01:34.11 bizzyweb When I passed you in the hall but all right hey pete welcome what I think one of the things that Dave and I were chatting about before we got started is you're the ah you're ah a regular prolific author what inspired you know. 01:35.27 Pete Thank you trigmad Great to be here. 01:38.74 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah, think. 01:50.72 bizzyweb Want to write your own book. 01:53.39 Pete You know I have I started as an engineer a little trivia I actually was gonna be an engineer um all my life and kind of found myself moving into marketing and just loving marketing. So um, that was you know one transition was from engineer to marketer and then. Um, maybe twenty years ago I started doing writing as part of my marketing job. You know blog posts and and articles and I found that I really liked it I really got a kick out of it so that had that that impetus there and then when I started my my b two b clarity business. 02:22.67 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And who. 02:30.95 Pete Three years ago um I created a framework based on you know how I was gonna solve these Ceo's problems marketing problems and I found that I was I was seeing patterns and I I had some what I felt were kind of truths about marketing that. Um, I just really felt a ah need to put together in ah in a story and and tell that story so that's that what's what resulted in the book on purpose. 02:59.89 bizzyweb It's ah it's a great book and it's something that I certainly recommend that anybody who wants to check it out. It's it's on Amazon but let's start. Let's talk about your framework because I think that's a great. Ah, we you know we've we've been on this podcast and talked to all sorts of different people in all sorts of different ways. But we haven't really spent a lot of time talking specifically about marketing. So what? what? you've got a 3 part framework for the Clari the clarity framework. So what? What are the 3 parts to it and I want add. 03:28.17 Pete Well I'll be yeah I would love to tell you that before I describe the 3 parts I want to I want to talk about kind of what the 3 you know what's the purpose of the 3 parts and and actually I call them the 3 03:30.70 bizzyweb Time on each. 03:41.67 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I. 03:45.19 Pete Superpowers of of ceos for marketing. Um, and and really what it is that I found talking to a bunch of b two b ceos over the years that a lot of them were struggling with they they had a lot of activity with marketing. 03:46.61 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb 8 04:02.45 Pete But usually it just wasn't it was disappointing. Their results weren't there and they didn't they just didn't know they didn't under. They didn't know why they it was very very frustrating because they're investing this money and it didn't seem like the activity was connected with results and what what I Found. Is the core difference. There is ceos that have um, created marketing as part of why they exist so having marketing with a purpose before they choose to spend any money on any tactic. And you can go through the laundry list Alphabet soup of all the possible things marketers. You know, ah companies can do with marketing today. All of that should come after you figure out who you are who you serve and how you ah how you share that with your clients and that's what marketing's job is. So that that's the background kind of that's kind of the purpose for the 3 superpowers and what I and I call that a mindset of meaning that's ah the ceos that have a mindset of meaning are able to actually do less and get better results with their marketing. The the. 04:59.93 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb So for sure. 04:59.98 bizzyweb Love it. 05:11.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I Love it. Yeah. 05:13.24 bizzyweb I Love that and I love that description because a lot of times what we get is people will come to us and say well. Yeah, we'd love you to rebuild our website. Okay, why? well it just doesn't look as nice. That's not a good reason to do something just because it don't look as. 05:15.80 Pete But. 05:29.89 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I but I kind of feel like they they approach us as as doctors and they they come in and like you know my elbow itches and and they tell me you know that's that's the equivalent of I need help with Seo like well. 05:33.21 bizzyweb Ah, shiny if it's functional and it ever. 05:42.25 Pete Um, and. 05:44.87 Pete Right. 05:47.82 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, seo doesn't necessarily get you what you want so that's why I love the the purpose and the clarity that you bring to your clients and that's why we love working with cmos like you pete and I should note that Pete Pete and and us have worked. At busy web have worked together on a number of clients and it's fascinating to work with someone that can approach true strategy from the good of the organization as a representative of the organization and it's so much more fun for us to work at that level and. I know you you mentioned that and you know just a few years ago you pivoted to being a fractional cmo. So what What's that what was that journey that led you here and then I know we have a couple of really fun topics that we want to break into so how how did you get to where you are right now. Pete. 06:41.88 Pete Well I had um after that start in engineering I had about 30 years of marketing experience in ah several um technology oriented businesses. So because of my background I've I've kind of gravitated to. 06:58.96 Pete Industries and businesses that had either technical product or a technical audience and kind of did all the marketing roles over 30 years and and just really learned how I you know just any 30 years of anything you get to kind of know how things smell you know and and then i. 07:02.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 07:13.14 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb The pulling here. 07:17.52 Pete Just kind of got to the point where I I realized I could spend a lot more time solving those problems if I was in rather than in one company that I could just spend a little time on that um to be able to actually find people that had that need and. Spend kind of all my time solving those problems so that's when I decided to go off on my own and um, that's what I do I I look for ceos that don't have a marketing leader on their team like you talked about the importance of that might be a Cmo. It might be a marketing director or Vp. 07:37.61 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb First. 07:48.36 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I Asked who. 07:55.33 Pete But if they don't have that role then they have those symptoms of being kind of lost and and they know it's not working but they just don't know how to fix it. They might also even have a ah Junior marketer on their team and that's even harder because they're they're investing in that employee and they can't. 07:59.77 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 08:06.99 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, yeah. 08:13.14 Pete Provide that that person knows how to do stuff but they don't know what to do often and you know they struggle to give them that direction as well. So that's that's the hole that I fill with with my services. Yeah. 08:16.46 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? Sure they're re luck impact. Yeah, excellent, yeah, and and so the relationship that you forge with your cut with your clients and. You don't take on a ton of clients at once. It's like a handful right? because you you can only get that deep with a few people without completely burning out your time. 08:35.91 Pete Right? correct. 08:44.15 Pete Right? Yeah, it's also a mind share thing I found that I can't keep ah too many businesses needs and you know opportunities in in my brain at the same time either. 08:52.18 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, sure Yeah, um. 08:56.22 bizzyweb So let's get back to the framework discussion that you've got the your 3 superpowers. What's the first one. 09:02.32 Pete Yeah, ah these 3 superpowers you're you're gonna you. You might be surprised at what they are because they're not. They're not your typical marketing pillars. So the first one is be authentic. 09:12.46 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And here. 09:18.70 Pete And you know another way I say that is tell the truth and I don't mean I don't just mean be honest, of course you know it's good to be honest I think what? what? I'm talking about is being being totally clear about who you are and. What you do, but more importantly, being transparent about that with your employees and your audience in everything you do so what authenticity in marketing means is your clients know clearly who you are and why you're doing what you're doing. Real reasons and your employees know what your mission is and why you're doing it. That's so important because marketing you guys know marketing is not that one experience they have when they when they get that 1 ad that 1 time marketing is the. 10:13.73 bizzyweb Yeah. 10:17.64 Pete Accumulated experiences that a prospect or client have over the life of their relationship with you and if if you have that authenticity in what you do and why you do it then every touch point they have whether it's an employee account manager whether it's your product how it works. 10:19.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 10:35.94 Pete It's an advertisement all those touch points are are built on each other. They reinforce each other.. What's really common is when people don't have that and they're doing those tactics somewhat randomly random act of marketing The the. Prospect is getting conflicting signals and we're all busy, right? Especially B Two B companies so that just cancels. They just okay this is confusing and you lose your opportunity so that that authenticity Breeds consistency It Breeds. Trust. 10:57.66 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Over over. 11:13.28 Pete And it helps you see the value so that's the first superpower number 2 is be intentional. This one's more maybe more traditional, but this is the idea that the best marketing. 11:14.92 bizzyweb Okay, what's the second. 11:22.84 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah, for her. 11:30.26 Pete Ah, is perp is purposeful and is chosen intentional ceos say no more they do fewer things their companies do fewer things in marketing but they do them really really? Well I I can't. Ah, name the number of times in my career I've worked in an organization from small to huge organizations that didn't that had a big campaign, a big initiative or a product launch and they didn't finish it. They either. 12:01.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 12:05.19 Pete Something changed in the market or the results weren't there or they got tired of it or there's another priority but they just quietly get shut down. Um that happens so often. That's a waste right? because a lot of marketing campaigns. There's a threshold where for the first work you do you put in. You don't really get much back. The payoff comes when you reach critical mass and the resonation happens and that so often businesses will vest that time and money and and mind share in these projects and then. 12:29.16 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 12:39.90 Pete Turn them off before they actually deliver anything So intentionality is about having this this ability to stay with things and have accountability. Um, another thing it is is um when you do choose those tactics. 12:41.25 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I think. 12:48.50 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb That. 12:59.78 Pete You want to have a reason for everything you're spending time and money on the reason I say that's important is in marketing particularly think of all the quote free apps or free tools that marketers could have. They're not free. 13:13.65 bizzyweb Totally. 13:14.25 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And the hand it name ah white. 13:18.47 Pete They are sucking up your team's mindshare and your management meeting discussions and your ah experience of your clients right? So having a shorter list is not intuitive but that actually is the more potent marketing when you're when you're choosing. 13:26.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 13:36.70 Pete Maybe 3 really important tactics and hitting those out of the park and then yeah, depending on your size you might add more but prioritize doing them right and succeeding and finishing right? That's what intentional that the second superpower is third one is my favorite. 13:36.30 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Fear. 13:49.72 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Absolutely scale. Yeah. 13:52.84 bizzyweb What's the third. 13:56.40 Pete And it's be generous. Ah counterintuitive um, be generous focus on ah giving focus on not what you are getting back. Okay, and and what I mean by that is. It goes Beyond Customer Centricity right? Yes, it is that but it's that on steroids. Really an example I'd give is rather than having an internal meeting um talking about how can we get them to Click or how can we get them to buy. 14:17.13 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh. 14:30.55 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb 50 14:33.59 Pete Rather have the meet have a meeting about how can we give some of this away. How can we wait longer to charge them and give them more value before we do. It's It's a mindset about putting your customer. First and and everything you're doing and you might say well wait a minute I'm in this business to make money so I have to make money the best way to make money is actually I'm gonna say you're in this business because you have a solution that your customers will value. 15:07.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb If. 15:09.32 Pete Yes, that results in and you getting paid. But if you focus first on that providing value. What happens is your prospects you will stand out in a way that that you can't buy. There's something intuitively attractive. 15:22.68 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb H. 15:28.42 Pete To a vendor that wants to help you and if you if you truly believe that that that company is looking out for you and is looking for the best for you. You're gonna stand out in that market now. None of that applies in a commodity. 15:39.31 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right now. 15:43.62 bizzyweb I. 15:46.91 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, rain Yeah right. 15:47.75 Pete Market but so set that aside other than that it's It's a paradox the more selfless Your business is the more business you will. You will have. 15:48.38 bizzyweb Yeah, yeah. 15:58.69 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb For sure and I think the the important part here is to go back to your company's name pete because it's B Two B right? So in businesses where you're business where you're building relationships This is is still very useful in a B to C or in a retail environment. But. 16:05.42 Pete Yeah, right. 16:17.39 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Relationships are where it's at and being generous and your other superpowers are super powers for businesses that are crafting long term relationships or where you take? yeah. 16:26.78 Pete I love that you set that Dave because my definition of marketing is creating relationships that's marketing's job. It's the only job they have and that relationship results in. 16:32.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh yeah, oh. 16:42.74 Pete Sales and revenue and retention and all those things. 16:43.97 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? Perfect? yes. 16:46.58 bizzyweb 1 of the things that you're a big fan of Pete and I know we are too that we've really never really blown out and spent a lot of time is talking about is the customer journey and I think that's one of those things that as I get deeper into my marketing career that. 16:55.31 Pete Yeah, for sure. 17:06.52 bizzyweb Is so critically important but yet is also discussed very flippantly. So Let's brave when when people hear their marketing company or their marketing. Ah their marketing consultant talk about the customer Journey. What does that mean to you. And what does that look like. 17:24.38 Pete Great question and I I view that as a central tool construct to create those relationships right? it it really is the map of the the the path to those relationships that end up. Ah, resulting in a champion customer at the end of the day. So what I like to do is use a 7 stage customer journey but the stage is you you could have a different set of stages. That's not the important thing important thing to me is it's the complete story of your customers. Experience with you from before they know you to them being a rabid fan right? and that but by having a customer journey map in your business. It does a couple things one it gives you. Um, a way to diagnose where marketing has the biggest opportunity bang for the buck for your business. So I'll give you an example what I do with clients is we do an exercise where we we map out there. We pick a target. 18:25.27 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb We need. Okay. 18:36.72 Pete Audience right? That's 1 thing that's often missing in this whole scheme for ceos without a marketing leader is they're trying to sell to too many people they have a broad definition of who they help right? A favorite definition that that that I got to kick out of is I asked somebody that who use who's your target market. 18:40.18 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Group here. Right? Oh we can sell to everybody. Yeah, who. 18:56.39 Pete Companies that make software that create software. That's it's a lot of companies. Not very actionable right? So that's the first thing with that customer journey. It needs to be about a specific set but then what we do is we map out what. 19:00.20 bizzyweb Um, like like we get failed. 19:02.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, and right. 19:15.25 Pete You know what you want to happen right? You you know your value in in in the best case, what does success look like how do they find you? How do they first hear about you? How do they learn more. How do they commit to buying from you. How does you know you go on on so we we map out all those steps. 19:22.91 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And. 19:35.10 Pete How specifically where they will hear about us who will tell them what they will know why they will decide all those things and then we go back through and we say well what's going on. What's the reality what you know is that you know what's the thing that's happening today and what will always happen is. That's not what's happening today and there'll be a certain point or 2 where it's either totally blocked and the customers just by luck are going around it to get to the further down the path or there's friction or you know there's there's a problem with there's a gap between. The customer journey they they dream of and the customer journey. They actually have that is your marketing priorities those points in the journey where your relationships are getting stuck. That's how you choose where to invest your marketing. Tactics and decide is it as is it website is it social media is it press you know Pr? Whatever wherever it is probably combination right? But you you focus on those problems and then the other benefit is it is so much easier to come up with what success looks like now. 20:37.37 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You move right. 20:50.83 Pete And have metrics for this success because you've defined what you're trying to achieve in each of those steps and the the gap between where I am today and where we need it to be so that's how you decide what you're gonna why you're gonna do what you're gonna do back to what we talked about earlier, you don't get that. 20:52.73 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A great right? ah. 21:08.81 Pete Hey let's do a video because it sounds cool. No it starts with the problem starts with the gap. Okay, what ideas what could we do to get this behavior to go to that right? And now you're now you're able to get some real concrete conversations about well that do it or won't it. Do it. 21:12.39 bizzyweb Good point. 21:14.95 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 21:27.56 Pete How much do we need to spend to achieve that in the in that the scoping of the project becomes requirements based. 21:35.82 bizzyweb 1 of the things that I've always admired you for is is I and I've heard you say this before is that that it's not really hard to get somebody to purchase from you. The challenge comes in repeat purchases. 21:50.29 Pete That's true. Yes, so so true I think back to the customer journey think it's a real common mistake is companies focus on the left half of the journey. So if we if you can see my video right now I'm yeah know I'm showing from the beginning of that. 22:04.65 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Great. 22:06.40 bizzyweb Um, is is doing ah. 22:07.14 Pete Journey through you they bought from us. We got revenue woo and for some companies. Not it's different different companies different ways. But for some b to b companies 90% of their revenue growth opportunity is going to be. 22:17.16 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Who. 22:25.40 Pete After the first sale because of it's ah as you said Dave it's a relationship sale often if they're choosing you as a vendor they're probably not going going through that effort to buy that 1 time from you they would prefer it if they have a partner that now they can depend on. 22:29.85 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb In it. 22:36.64 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. Right move. 22:43.20 Pete For a stream of services over time right? and depending on the the business model they have that stream could be so much bigger than that first sale and so it really is part of the analysis. The work needs to be done to see how what is the value of that first. 22:51.68 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 23:01.76 Pete Revenue versus the ah ongoing revenue frankly trigger. But that's part of that analysis you do in the customer journey right? as you map that out and that helps prioritize the work too. 23:07.52 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, one of the things that I like clarifying with my customers and ah and I'm sure that this is something that we do with all of our customers and in kind of marketing but for a true b 2 b sale what you're trying to get to. 23:11.40 bizzyweb But. 23:26.27 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb With that customer is that they'll never have to research or make that same purchase decision again because they've now found their guy their partner from that moment forward. So for for what you do as an organization you. 23:36.15 Pete Right? Yes, yeah. 23:43.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Want your customers to always think of you as their solution and that's it full stop. Trust absolutely you know getting getting that together. Yeah, not yeah, not price, not quantity, not not you know I'll knock 20 I'll knock twenty cents off each for yeah, it's it's. 23:47.76 Pete Yeah, and what makes that happen relationship right? It's not price. 23:51.62 bizzyweb Trauma. 23:59.29 Pete Right. 24:03.87 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Is this the end of my decision process for this particular need. 24:05.60 Pete Right? right. 24:07.69 bizzyweb I actually had an experience with somebody where I offered to knock five hundred bucks off the cost of something and she said well great then I don't really know and then no I why but why don't you expect to have that $500 put towards another project. 24:22.57 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh. 24:22.61 Pete Right? Could you because by saying that you're saying what I'm offering. You is not worth that extra $500 right but more 24:29.66 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 24:31.75 bizzyweb Well yeah I mean it all depends on how you frame it I didn't if you don't couch it in a way that is helpful I did that So what I did as I said you know, um. 24:46.76 bizzyweb the the first the first hurdle is often the most the the most difficult one because you don't know what kind of work we can do and what kind of um deliverables we can give you and how good we are at actually doing what we say we do. So if I mitigate your risk if I take $500 off would that make you feel would that help you on the trust factor because I know that we're going to make it up down the road and I know we're going to continue to There's a lot to be done together and that's when she said sure you know if you do the use carsmiils and salesman and say you know what? Pete? Why don't I just knock $500 off call. 25:12.72 Pete Um. 25:16.93 Pete Right. 25:22.56 Pete Right. 25:25.12 bizzyweb But where the why would it take you to get to this marketing plan today. 25:27.25 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb If I. 25:27.39 Pete Yeah I like what you said because it's not um, it's not just a a random price cut. It's it's ah it's a change. It's it's talking about the a value for you know that there there's a different value if you have that if you don't have that price there. 25:41.00 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Will right and protect. 25:45.10 bizzyweb I'm with the opinion that um for most people in business unless you're an owner and it's literally your Checkbook money doesn't matter instead. Money is a definition of risk. 25:59.94 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 26:02.63 bizzyweb And if it's a lot of money then that's a lot of risk if it's not a lot of money. It's not a lot of risk and that's how people really view the price of things in the business world. 26:11.30 Pete Yeah, you know, kind of related to that. It reminds me of something that that I like to talk about and that is it's related to the the generosity topic but it's not about you. It's not about your business. It's about your client and where that comes into pricing to me. Is the more your conversations with your client are about the they the value they're getting versus what you're charging. That means you're the topic is them. And the topic is not. You Yes, There's a price that needs to be agreed to but the if the if the weight of the conversation if the focus of the conversation is leaning towards the opportunity for them to have more revenue or less cost or whatever it is they want and then. 27:04.45 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right. 27:08.30 Pete You just say yeah and we'll do that. That's that's what we're going to do for you and this is what it costs that's conversation that is going to win more often. 27:10.29 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Absolutely one of the things that we use to reframe with our customers quite a bit is okay so you need to do all of these tactics in order to drive business to your. Organization. What? what cost-wise. Is it going to take if you try to hire that internally and then let's talk about the price about what busy web would be if you just use us instead of bringing an internal hire and then you talk about taxes and vacation time and hardware. 27:36.40 Pete Right. 27:45.19 Pete Right. 27:47.29 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb And training and so you you just need to reframe it into something that matches what your customer actually needs I Love that. Ah, when we started chat and Pete I know ah right before we we started recording. 27:52.19 Pete Yeah, exactly exactly. 28:02.91 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb You you said you had a couple of of pet things that you would love to chat about if given the chance I think one of those was Ai and as a marketing leader for a number of organizations. How do you see this artificial intelligence this chad gpt stuff all of those um, funky things where you can type in and get. Robot assisted content dumped your way. What's what what do you see on the horizon. 28:25.34 bizzyweb And and and before you answer I'm going to take this opportunity to offer a che plug ah episode 5 with the dial it in podcast is Dave's and my penetrating gotcha interview with the chat Gpt robot. 28:30.46 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah. 28:40.95 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, right. 28:44.50 bizzyweb And it's mobile where all where you got this podcast Also big shout out to my cousin mad for reading the chat Gp Robot pronouns. 28:53.92 Pete So huge topic right? Huge topic and ah, it's It's been stunning for me to and I think for a lot of people to watch the um just the Flux The this is definitely a game changer not just for marketing for almost every you know. 29:03.24 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 29:08.24 bizzyweb Yeah, yeah. 29:08.26 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Yeah, everything. Yeah. 29:10.47 Pete For our for our economy and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Um I've been I've been watching it and learning and you know I guess a couple takeaways for me from um from a Ceo when it relates to their marketing and. And 1 is I encourage every but this is probably true for anything but I encourage everybody to get out there and and try and play with it because this really takes no time at all, you want to know what it is. It's less about to start doing something with it as get a feel for because it's just different right? and there's it will spark. It will help you to be familiar with what people are talking about by. Yeah, you can read an article but you ought to just try in putting some prompts in to chat ge or some other tool and um, it's it's pretty amazing, right? And it's an eyeopening experience. That's the first thing. 29:53.29 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? he. 30:04.34 Pete and and and I think I have 2 other marketing related thoughts on Ai one is Ai is going to be a huge productivity tool for marketing huge as as in a lot of different things examples of that are today even. 30:15.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 30:24.34 Pete Um, if we need to create a press release if you wanted. You could tell chat Gp draft me a 3 paragraph press release of this many words on so-and-so so topic while it's a very very powerful productivity tool the mistake that people are going to make. 30:31.58 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 30:43.87 Pete That I would encourage strongly encourage people listening to not make is to treat ah ai as as a writer or a content creator. There's a subtle difference here. It is not a content creator for your business. 30:53.14 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 31:02.70 Pete And I'll tell you why it shouldn't be It is a productivity tool for your content creator writer whoever that is and it may be as simple as it with chat Gpt as you as the Ceo doing that probably not but it can become a lot easier to create content but at the end of the day. If your content is just what Ai is creating your content has now just been commoditized to be what is the stamp basically Wikipedia because chat did the way it works. 31:32.82 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? right. 31:37.83 Pete Is it is. It's a language model right? So it's it's drawing on all the information that's out there. Not what you are and why you exist and what you do for your your clients. So your content has to for marketing to work. 31:40.69 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, wait. 31:42.77 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? You will. 31:55.84 Pete Content value added content is content that gives away some of your insight and expertise to your prospects or clients. That's why we create content and marketing. So at the end of the day you have to add your special sauce or. 32:00.94 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Over yeah. 32:13.41 Pete You are on a race to the bottom with your content and think about ah think about email you know mass emails spam that whole industry That's gonna happen with content. So what's gonna happen is the way today you get emails. 32:22.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 32:32.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 32:32.31 Pete Or robocalls that you go Okay, great delete Delete spam Blah Blah blah all that that annoying effort you have that is now going to happen with blogs and articles and everything else because it's ease. It's free to do people can do it. That's why it's so important that you don't jump on that bandwagon and just create I'll call it empty calorie content. You need your content to be infused with what you do or you will be viewed as a spammer just like everybody else. 33:02.80 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh my yeah I I kind of view the the Ai thing or it or like chatchi petee right? right now as like the world's most helpful librarian where it's going to spit out content that you've already seen or that's already out there in the world in a much more comprehensive way than you've ever seen before. But it doesn't mean you should just use it as your own right? So I love that? Yeah no. 33:22.61 Pete Right? And I also believe that sorry to interrupt you Dave but that it's changing so fast that even a year from now its capabilities will go from librarian to personal scribe. You know it. It is gonna be able to do. 33:40.31 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah, yeah, who. 33:42.42 Pete Amazing things. But I guess the the key message here is it has to you have to you have to have the plan. It has to be your your story or you will get. Um you don't want a robot writing for you. 33:48.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? right? right? Yeah, it's It's just like you like you just said. It's a race to the bottom if you don't add your knowledge and intention to it I Love that. 34:06.35 Pete Also add a kind of a legal detail. Um the I freak I think it's a trademark trade us patent office has come out with a ruling that said they will not award copyrights to Ai generated content. So. 34:06.50 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Ah, triggering all. 34:12.54 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A here. 34:21.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb That's right? yep. 34:23.75 Pete What that means for you is if you use a if you use copy that was created by Ai it cannot. You cannot copyright it and you said you might say well I don't care but that's something for you. It's another reason for you to think about this because they have recognized that. Um. 34:31.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Nick. 34:36.85 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Call it. 34:42.42 Pete Just what we said they're they're codifying that right? They're saying you're not going to give you protection on something you didn't write. That's not you write it back to what we said so you might want to talk to your lawyers about how much can I use Ai to help me before it becomes Ai content. 34:46.56 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Hey right? right? ah. 34:57.94 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right for sure and I think we attended a conference last week or like last month where the the going thinking is that Ai generated content with at least 7 significant modifications. 34:59.89 Pete And you know if that's important to you if you want to protect your content. That's something for you to check out. 35:17.53 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Is copyrightable still but there's like a 7 levels of you need to make it your own in order to in order to qualify TrigV you and I have been chatting about this quite a bit and I know you have some some Ai related input. 35:31.70 bizzyweb I I I back in the dark ages of Google which we like to call it when Dave and I had had a lot more hair and we thought of and it back in the twenty twenty ah twenty odds as it were. There was this new thing called Google images where you could put in ah a keyword and then all of a sudden it would throw you all these images but the problem is those aren't your images to take and do with as you will and so what we in the marketing community found is that they're what's. 35:54.98 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah. 36:04.53 bizzyweb Sprung up as a result of that is an entire subset of ambulance chasers who would do nothing but scour the internet looking for picture usage and then sending people a $700 fine for using the picture and they would make. Tens of thousands of dollars on that because the original owner of the picture is the original owner of the picture. So anything that you do in chat gp is not original. It is not yours it is like looking at a photo. 36:26.79 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh. 36:38.30 bizzyweb Yes, it might be helpful. Yes, it certainly is is there quickly but it doesn't replace original content I think I want to echo what pete said is that there is a value in having content but it's fairly shunted if it's not original and authentic. 36:53.33 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Point out. Yeah, right. 36:54.79 bizzyweb And actually talking to the people that you want to talk to well the second thing is um I had an experience I I had and ah 2 experiences that were were really helpful and you know because my job is selling marketing I talked to a guy who. His job was marine surveying. Nicest guy in the world and he I'm not a writer I don't know how to do this I don't ah so I said oh okay, fine. Give me a topic and he gave me a topic and I I went okay, fine and I entered it into chat Gpt 500 word thing. Cut and paste it into an email and gave it to him. This is several months ago before I learned better. He you're saying oh my god that's great. Fantastic. Is's like well sure it's chat gp and then um I did the same thing about a month and a half ago to with a woman who sell her her she has a reseller of shipping containers worried about content I said give me a topic con that you'd write a blog on and I did and I and I did the same thing cut and payston sent it to her and her response was incredibly. 37:54.51 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 38:09.46 bizzyweb Incredibly helpful which was she said and she read it all the way through and she said this is the neatest thing I've ever seen and it's 100% inaccurate so it's completely and utterly wrong. This isn't how you do this thing. So what. 38:20.89 Pete Um. 38:24.42 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb He ah get. 38:27.79 bizzyweb I Think what? what scares me ah, is that there's so much out there in the world and a good portion of it is bad that the opportunity to use a tool like this for the sake of speed doesn't negate isn't the same thing as being good. 38:35.90 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here. 38:46.30 bizzyweb And we see this also in in the Martech world which we're all in you know a couple three years ago you you saw that there was Linkedin automation in order to use that for sales and that happened right around the the time of the pandemic where. People would pay us a couple hundred dollars to a service who would then use Linkedin sales navigator to start reaching out to the people you really wanted to talk to and send them messages. But the problem was is everybody send the same. Um. Expletive deleted here dag gum meeting for Andy the editor. So that's not really what I'm thinking but I know we don't want to swear the dag gum meeting and we've all get this and it goes as follows hello Dave ah. I was recently looking at insert business name here and think it's awesome I do a b c and d and I would like how how is next week for a ah meeting to talk about what I do. 39:56.31 bizzyweb Thanks so much. Can't wait to talk to you love random person and I know but you guys but I get that Twenty Twenty five a week Three Do it. 39:59.58 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb I Yeah yeah, it is and it's It's no such thing as a free lunch and there's no such thing as a shortcut which led you know going right? back to what you do pete and bringing clarity into the marketing that you're doing. 40:01.85 Pete Yeah, that's the new spam. 40:10.40 Pete Right. 40:18.63 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Focusing on those superpowers. You actually focus on what's in it for your customer and work to build a generous helpful relationship right? from the get go. 40:27.16 Pete As far as I know Ai can do I can't see anything Ai probably won't be able to do for marketing I think the one thing that's not gonna be able to do I'm pretty sure is define your meaning is is give your business meaning so right back to it. 40:40.70 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Who gets no. 40:45.88 Pete It'll do what you tell it to but it can't create that reason for for your clients for existing. 40:51.60 bizzyweb 1 of 1 of the things that one of the most helpful things I've learned in marketing is I learned from a a guy named David Man who's local here to Minneapolis and oh you do? yeah he he talks about the disease of Wemi Ias where so many people in. 40:58.75 Pete I know David. 41:00.20 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Kind of very much. A. 41:09.73 bizzyweb Marketing and in sales in general fall have this terrible disease of we may eyes where I will tell you what we do and how how I help people and the things that ah that we have done us is done in the past we me I us. Um. 41:16.20 Pete App. 41:25.60 Pete Yeah. 41:28.42 bizzyweb Because it's about me because that's the most helpful thing if you meet somebody is to talk about you. The harder thing is to talk about you talk about them and the learn about them and so to create any sort of value and a relationship you have to understand what somebody's talking to you about. 41:36.44 Pete Yeah, yeah. 41:47.57 bizzyweb And what problem you're that that somebody might have that you're trying to solve. So yeah, still we me I If if you like people what are what is the what is what is marketing where is marketing going in your. 41:51.33 Pete Right? Totally agree. 41:59.64 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, so. 42:06.99 bizzyweb In your eyes in the next 2 to 3 years because it's always perpetually revolving where do you see the industry going. 42:17.48 Pete I various along the lines of what the conversation we just had I believe that um the the experience the the communications part of marketing the way. Ah clients. Share the way customers companies share their who they are with their their clients is going to go through a huge revolution because of ai and as as we just talked about I think what's going to happen is what today we we assume is um. Oh they have a video personalized. You know a video on like I do videos once a week on on Linkedin. 42:53.36 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb So oh yeah I Want to talk about that? Yeah yeah, so. 42:53.72 bizzyweb Well, you're bearing the lead there you you're really good at videos on Linkedin. 42:59.87 Pete In in some amount of time in the next 2 to 3 years I think Ai will be creating video could create a video like that with my my face and and saying saying what Ai wants to say so I see ah I don't know what the next thing will be. 43:07.60 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Oh yeah, yeah, oh. Hit. 43:17.41 Pete But I see a lot of the current tools that are valuable having to be rethought and reinvented because of the race to the bottom because of the spam effect of Ai content creation and I don't know what the next level will be but it's. 43:26.19 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Here right. 43:36.40 Pete Gotta be a way for people. Ah ceos need to find a way to share their meaning and their value with their clients in a way that's unique and as we said it's not gonna be if everybody. 43:47.62 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, yeah. 43:52.69 Pete Every company's creating personal quote personalized videos with Ai we're gonna have to find something else because they won't be able to tell the difference. 43:54.86 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? right? Oh man I think to to layer on top of what Pete's saying you know the the ability for tools like Ai to. 43:58.87 bizzyweb Um, they they Dave same question to you where do you think the industry's crying. 44:14.39 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Enhance thought is going to be much more powerful. It's going to be counterbalanced by that race to the bottom and people being lazy and so it's up to us in the the thinking space of marketing. To provide and fight the good fight about okay, well let's use it for good and not for yeah I'm not even going to say evil I'm going to say don't be lazy with Ai and instead use it to challenge your thinking and I can create a prompt right now that says you know I am a seasons. Um, marketing professional with 20 years experience and I I need to provide all kinds of different feedback in context and you can put this this prompt and prompt engineering is going to be 1 of those new job descriptions. Nobody's written about but I can generate a prompt that's actually going to be. 45:06.27 Pete Yeah, agreed. 45:13.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Very useful because it tells the tools to mine specific kinds of data in its Ai Process so I think that's important that's interesting but knowing the difference between easy to do and done well. Is going to be another master skill like right now if you gave me 4 different articles and 3 of them were written by ai by chat gpt and 1 of them was written by a human. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to pick the one human out right away you can just tell it's it's super circular if you ask chat to be you to write anything. Um, yeah, that is important. Yeah. 45:57.70 Pete I think that just ah I think the analogy there is Cgi twenty years ago at the time we're like oh my gosh we're not gonna need actors anymore. This is amazing and now now to your point. It's like oh yeah has cgi it discounts it. 46:08.22 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, right right? Yeah, ah. 46:14.45 Pete Right? And and we can tell ah and and we I'm still hiring actors and I'm paying them big dollars because there's something there. 46:15.88 bizzyweb When I. 46:20.99 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um, as right. 46:24.10 bizzyweb When I was a kid the opening of raiders of the lost ark was utterly terrifying because a guy got stabbed through the head with the speaker and I just shared it with my eight year old roughly and he just blew right through it and I thought um. 46:29.52 Pete Yeah, right. 46:38.22 Pete Well now. 46:40.83 bizzyweb And am I am I raising a sociopathine not not at all hey look I like are you okay and we he goes. Oh yeah, just go back and pause and then he walks up to the to the Tv and he diagrammed how every looking at that what I was the kid was scary to me. Um. 46:50.46 Pete Oh my gosh that funny. Yeah yeah. 46:55.61 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Um. 46:57.90 bizzyweb Was was really just movie magic. 46:58.40 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Right? that So the the last thing and I want to say about what the future of marketing is is people are going to with more veracity look for real connection because that. 47:11.99 Pete Yes. 47:14.64 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb That Uncanny Valley Ness of the content that we're that we're about to be flooded with is going to get so tiresome that we're just going to say you know just give get me a real person. 47:22.93 Pete Yes I think you're right? Potentially it's the resurgence of ah local events and you know event marketing when that thing I mean it kind of makes sense to me back to the future kind of of of a chain. 47:33.23 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Wouldn't that be fun. Yeah yeah through that right? Ah Pete this has been absolutely fascinating and yeah, we we could we could and we probably should do a part 2 at some point. 47:40.50 Pete That does make sense. 47:50.19 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb But yeah, remind everybody where we can find you and what what we can do and and how how they can use your talents. 47:57.74 Pete Thanks Dave! It's been just great. 48:00.74 bizzyweb But but but before we get to that I want to cheat plug pete does a tremendous amount of video work that if you follow him Linkedin um is everything that we talked about today. It is helpful. It is purposeful. 48:08.10 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb A. 48:17.95 bizzyweb And it is thoughtful and insightful and is ah 100% worth the time of watching pete videos. All right now. Go now. Go pete. 48:25.86 Pete Thank you I appreciate that and people can find me on and a couple different ways. 1 is my website b two b claritymarketing dot com and the blog has the videos that trigba's talking about I'm also on Youtube same thing and. Probably the easiest way to reach me is just look me up on on Linkedin if you can spell my last name as t e e g e not seeger. Sorry um, and um I'd love to chat you know back to the idea of generous marketing I try to practice what I preach. 48:50.85 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb That if. 48:50.93 bizzyweb Ah, right if I had a. 48:59.10 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb He. 49:01.14 Pete And I would just love to have a half hour chat with you if you just you want to lay down on the marketing therapy couch and and share your all your concerns I would love to see if I can't provide you some some advice just help you along the way. 49:05.85 bizzyweb Yeah. 49:16.12 Dave Meyer_ BizzyWeb Amazing. 49:17.57 bizzyweb Absolutely and you know therapy I can get. It's been a joy. Thank you for joining us and if you need to need some clarity in your marketing. Ah pizza Great guide and now. 49:18.35 Pete That.